Rip Gryphon | Forums

[King_of_Xibalba]

I think this is the one time I'm going to disagree with ye here, Raime.

Personally, I didn't like the kick damage. Too easy to get to the mixup and even gives frame advantage. 28 was a lot, and I'm glad it's now weaker than Valkyrie's at 24dmg.

His variable side dodge timings helped him option select and counter a lot of characters on the roster, and was generally very unhealthy and frustrating to fight.

I don't like Gryphon's bash. It has no animation and is cheesy at every level of play. Being able to continue chains after a missed or whiffed bash is stupid, and it's another reason why his OOS pressure was so powerful and frustrating. For console players it's multiple reads after the other. Dodge the bash, block the side he's going to throw the light, and read the multiple options he has from there, which are a kick, undodgeable light, heavy, or heavy GB. Stupid.

I correctly read Gryphon less than 50% of the time in this regard. It doesn't make me a bad player, it's all luck at that point since he has ALL of these tools and versatility and there is nothing I can do about it unless I get a parry.

Turning the bash into a forward bash instead of an instantaneous shove will improve mixup potential in similar ways that other forward bash heroes have, whilst also making the move less frustrating. Having to first dodge forward and THEN bash will have players decide whether or not Gryphon will GB or bash.

IMO his bash was too strong. There was no animation to work with so everyone had to make a hard read for TIMING and no ques. Gryphon's bash is one of the best in the game because the animation is so short.

No character should be punished for dodging a bash, and Gryphon did this frequently to everyone. Yes, he'll no longer be able to keep you hitstunned after a blocked followup light since he won't be able to throw it if you dodge the bash. Big deal. He was overpowered. He's too easy to play because he has offense that trumps the game's fundemental defense. He was just overwhelming, and it's simply not fun to play.

I don't back out of games, but when I want to have some chill matches and I see two high level Gryphons on the enemy team, I leave. I've had enough of overwhelming heroes and I shouldn't have to think so incredibly hard just to make a few reads that Gryphon will most likely be able to come back from.

Hopefully with these changes Gryphon's will learn to use their brains a little more and not rely on the cheese that is his whole kit.

Removing stamina pause is something they need to do for every knight hero.

The fact that players are picking Gryphon for a money prize tournament should probably tell you something about the overall balance of the character. If there are gryphons on every single team for the overpowered cheese hero that he is, I don't blame them.

after a careful read I agree with all your points; two high level gryphons are a nightmare indeed, I don´t leave but I think I should cause many times they team up and just stomp everyone thinking they are the best players in the world.

[MrBdur]

Please actually read. I'm not against him being nerfed. I said he was rightfully being nerfed. I'm literally only complaining about the bash change. Which is not at all a minor nerf/change. It fundamentally changes him. Feint into neutral bash kind of patched his *** mid chain. Now that's gone because it's a forward bash with a hefty delay sattled to it.

I'm fine with them changing the bash and the premise of said change. (that being reducing frustration and making the bash more viable across the board) The problem is they didn't do enough to make that goal happen.

Also the fact that no one seems to care about the impact of these changes on the tournament besides comp players themselves just goes to show how tone deaf and out of touch the majority of the player base is with the health and understanding of this game.

Its crap like this that legitimately depresses me and makes me want to stop caring about the game.

Ah fair enough.

As for the comp play stuff.

They limited who can even take part to PC only, the smallest of all the playerbases. Not surprised the majority of players don't care. The majority of players can't enter. Lol

[Qoissant]

I see raime is still preaching to a forum of contradicting bots, unfortunate how little progress this game and community made in a years time

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I don't see a problem with the comp play part. People started mastering Gryphon because he is a currently a MUST pick in single pick, there is just no competition for the current Gryphon. Every team would have been built from one Gryphon, one Warmonger, and two other meta picks (Warlord probably one of them for most teams), which means these two characters are broken in 4v4. Maybe it is disrespectful for teams where people put energy in learning Gryphon, but I think it is also disrespectful for that person in comp team where he/she was forced to abandon their main in favour of the new broken metapick. There will always be a viability list, but if certain characters can't compete, while others are significantly superior to others, it really must be fixed asap. Gryphon is actively killing the fun for the playerbase right now, just because 20 or so players practiced a bit with Gryphon, it is not justified to make them getting the same experience. Though you are right that the timing is unfortunate, it should have been done months ago (along with Corruption).



For the changes themselves, I am not satisfied. They basically nuked Gryphon's offense, but did very little with that disgusting dodge heavy. That was basically the only problematic thing with the hero itself, that should have been addressed first.


I didn't see a problem with neutral bash, but now that they mention it, I am looking forward to the change where Tiandi and the new Gladiator can't chain after the miss bash. I guess there is the Jörmungandr as well, but well, it is already the worst hero in the game, so nerfing the most useless move further wouldn't really make a difference.

[BlueFlameGR]

Grats on failing basic reading comprehension. I literally said he got nerfs that he deserved. I'm only complaining about the bash change. If only you were a grand Master with reading. Unfortunate.

You didn't say Gryphon changes are fine except of bash nowhere. I read it again. You just talk specifically for the bash. Make it more clear next time.

[MrGrippz]

I think they aint nerf him enough.

The changes they will make on Thursday are fine but him & Warmonger need frame advantage taken away.

That ish is ruining char balance. FH has turned into noobs picking meta chars & cheesing advantages for the win; not actually playing with skill.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think they aint nerf him enough.

The changes they will make on Thursday are fine but him & Warmonger need frame advantage taken away.

That ish is ruining char balance. FH has turned into noobs picking meta chars & cheesing advantages for the win; not actually playing with skill.

What frame advantage? He has it for landing a heavy finisher, which is natural.


If WM's Frame Advantage is touched, then Warden's bash shouldn't chain.

[Knight_Raime]

the part when you say this cannot be right before an important event for the entire community is totally true. It was a BS move.

You said "rightfully", so I understand that you are in agree with some changes.

I agree with some nerfs too but The bash one I also find it bad handled. No compensation too for him.homever mix potential is there.

Yeah it blows my mind how they can be okay with dropping such significant changes before a tournament. Like if they seriously felt that he was too unstable of a state to be left in a tournament that he needed patching asap you'd think they would have addressed him much sooner.

[Knight_Raime]

Ah fair enough.

As for the comp play stuff.

They limited who can even take part to PC only, the smallest of all the playerbases. Not surprised the majority of players don't care. The majority of players can't enter. Lol

It's just so annoying that the general attitude i'm seeing is -crab rave- Gryphon is dead. -crab rave-
Like even if he was the most imbalanced and toxic piece of garbage that was ever released you still shouldn't celebrate a near gutting of the character.
Nor should you over look the massive dumpster fire of a decision to make such kit altering changes right before a tourney. Maybe I just expect too much from the average player.

I see raime is still preaching to a forum of contradicting bots, unfortunate how little progress this game and community made in a years time

I scream here because I know the mods will take my feedback and pass it on. They've done it many times before. Comp players already directly talk to the devs so I need to show them that there are casual players like myself who don't accept this behavior.

You didn't say Gryphon changes are fine except of bash nowhere. I read it again. You just talk specifically for the bash. Make it more clear next time.

"he (rightfully) received nerfs everywhere else."

But sure, next time i'll put it in big bold letters for you next time. Maybe i'll even learn how to code so they flash on just your screen and are worded specifically for a toddler so you can better understand.

[Knight_Raime]

I don't see a problem with the comp play part. People started mastering Gryphon because he is a currently a MUST pick in single pick, there is just no competition for the current Gryphon. Every team would have been built from one Gryphon, one Warmonger, and two other meta picks (Warlord probably one of them for most teams), which means these two characters are broken in 4v4. Maybe it is disrespectful for teams where people put energy in learning Gryphon, but I think it is also disrespectful for that person in comp team where he/she was forced to abandon their main in favour of the new broken metapick. There will always be a viability list, but if certain characters can't compete, while others are significantly superior to others, it really must be fixed asap. Gryphon is actively killing the fun for the playerbase right now, just because 20 or so players practiced a bit with Gryphon, it is not justified to make them getting the same experience. Though you are right that the timing is unfortunate, it should have been done months ago (along with Corruption).



For the changes themselves, I am not satisfied. They basically nuked Gryphon's offense, but did very little with that disgusting dodge heavy. That was basically the only problematic thing with the hero itself, that should have been addressed first.


I didn't see a problem with neutral bash, but now that they mention it, I am looking forward to the change where Tiandi and the new Gladiator can't chain after the miss bash. I guess there is the Jörmungandr as well, but well, it is already the worst hero in the game, so nerfing the most useless move further wouldn't really make a difference.

I mean Barrak Stopped playing zerk competitively and picked up WL. It's not unheard of to change who you practice with in scrims in order to make a team comp that works with everyone. Gryphon was going to get picked because of how much healing he has. Not because of anything native to his kit. Even though his T3 was banned he'd still be taken for healing. With his nerfs that re opens the roster for 4 other heros in his place. WM wasn't even a must pick anymore thanks to the final round of nerfs her corruption got. The timing of the changes are just unacceptable.

If they add more to the kick the new forward dodge bash could give him some level of offense. But as is they just took away from him imo. I'm interested to see how his dodge attack performs now. Since a lot of people claim he has a bunch of I frames but I was always under the assumption the problem was strictly the input window he had. I can only assume they removed from whiffing because that would let him lead into his kick mix. When you compare that potential to Tiandi's offense that stops with FD 400ms lights and Jorms....well nothing with FD I can see it. But I still disagree with not allowing chain on whiff. They nerfed his kick damage with this patch. So it would've been fine.