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  1. #101
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    I took a level 3 control point at World Tier 4, and it was very slow going, especially after the fog set in for a bit and I couldn't see the enemy any more at the long range I was working at. :-/ Not to mention that it takes so many shots to take out the big dudes with the hammers. I'd get off a half dozen headshots and then have to run away for a bit before he clobbered me. Eventually I just found myself hauling out my backup SMG to take them out.

    Obviously I also need a bit more damage boost for the MMR when using it. (I didn't have an appropriate piece of Airaldi handy, though I did have a couple of pieces of Providence that my standard rifle build for this character has.) There were way too many moments of, "Oh, almost killed him! Just a bit left on that health bar!"
    I specifically carry an AR secondary for Chunga/Dogs. And yes, the key to the Sniper build is dialing in the WD/HS so that you're not leaving a sliver of health

    What I find most effective, is Punch Drunk [still Multiplicative I believe] + (2)Airaldi + Providence. Last two are dealers choice. Once I get enough WD/HS, the rest of the attributes can go elsewhere.

    The best part about White Death, is it meets the Headhunter threshold on its own. I actually had a full Skill sniper build with the White Death + Headhunter at one point, that could handle Legendary Summit floors [right at launch, before they changed it]. Sawyer's + (2)R&K [for Hive & Explosive Resistance] + Airaldi + Punch Drunk [rolled Skill] + Alps + Technician. All of the non-Sawyer's had HS attributes. Rest were a mix of Explosive Resistance and WH I think. Used a Restorer Hive to keep me healed up, then either a Turret or Decoy depending on the layout. Hit hard enough to one shot a Red or light Purple, which then procc'd Headhunter for one shot deletion of all but Chunga/Dogs. Just had to watch for the flanking rushers that snuck around.
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  2. #102
    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    One other question... last night was the night of supply drops for some reason. I've never seen one before and then last night there was one nearly every 5 minutes it seemed.

    Now, I can usually get one crate open before getting into a fight, and then I can defend another... but so far, I have to sacrifice the third as it's usually not possible to defend two at a time.

    How do you guys deal with this situation?
    Take first. Kill all enemies. Take second. Kill next waves of enemies. Take third. If an enemy approaches a crate, prioritize their demise. This is also one of the few times I like using skills - an Assault Turret & Striker Drone make it much easier to handle the 360° defense.

    Also, on your flash bang issue, those might have been Hyena Snipers - they have a green laser that will produce a flashbang effect.
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  3. #103
    Virtual-Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LateNiteDelight Go to original post
    Take first. Kill all enemies. Take second. Kill next waves of enemies. Take third. If an enemy approaches a crate, prioritize their demise. This is also one of the few times I like using skills - an Assault Turret & Striker Drone make it much easier to handle the 360° defense.

    Also, on your flash bang issue, those might have been Hyena Snipers - they have a green laser that will produce a flashbang effect.
    Sound easy enough ... my problem was that after I took the first crate, I hunkered down behind some good cover to protect the 2nd crate, and while I was doing that, they took the 3rd crate which I couldn't really see or cover. The crates seem spread out enough that it's hard to cover all three and enemies seem to come from multiple directions. Once I tried to get aggressive on the offence to clear the area without using cover and learned a lesson
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  4. #104
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    One other thing I encountered for the first time last night was flash bang grenades... I got flashed twice and both times, it caught me by surprise as I had not noticed any indicator of an incoming grenade. Did I just miss that? And why don't I have flash bangs?!

    Sounds like True Sons rushers. They sometimes huck a nade at you right before they attack. It's not a normal lob, they just kind of underhand it in your direction. Very hard to avoid.

    Fortunately rushers always have super low armor and HP. It takes a bit of practice, but you can take them out quickly and hide behind cover to avoid their friends. Or just hang back and wait for them to come to you.

    And as someone else said: You do get flashbangs eventually. But it requires using the Sharpshooter specialization that you get at level 30, World Tier 1. I'm not a fan of Sharpshooter, but a lot of people swear by it.

    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    Also related, I find the sticky cover sometimes frustrating - if I hear a rusher coming, a grenade is incoming, or a remote control bomb - it seems difficult to move. I guess I just need to get better.
    There's an option in the gameplay settings: "Allow movement to break cover" or something like that. Again, it takes a bit of practice to get used to, but I find that it's much better than sticky-cover settings. Side-to-side still just moves behind cover., but all I need to do to get out of cover is just move directly away from it.

    Personal preference, but I think it gives me more control. You could dodge-roll out of cover, but I've seen a lot of people have problems with clicking too much, and immediately sticking back into cover. Making what should have been a fair escape turn into a death.


    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    This raises a good question about movement strategy. So far, I find the the best strategy is to not get too close to a group of enemies... to take cover and start taking them out as they move closer to me, or pick them off at a distance if they are not moving in. I've found that if I accidentally get too close or push up, that I end up getting flanked or surrounded which is deadly. So at least at my current level, sitting back in cover and waiting for them to come to me, is the safest, albeit slowest strategy.
    The sad truth is that range is your friend. Playing danger close is a good way to get killed fast, usually. It's one of the reasons that shotguns and SMGs are not very popular. Enemies do A LOT of damage up close.

    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    In fact, last night I did a mission where I had to destroy 3 EMP devices on the roof of a building and one was deep into the level. And when I was there I was quickly surrounded and went down. So when I respawned, after destroying the EMP device deep into the level, I then sprinted for a more defensible position near the level entrance and could use this strategy of picking off guys as they approached.

    I guess the moral of the story is never get surrounded. That seems to be instant death.
    There's a method that I use for that mission that always works for me. And it works even if you're using a skill build, which is usually where people have a hard time with that mission:

    Kill the first EMP closest to you as you come out of the elevator. Immediately turn right and sprint to the second one in the circular area, behind the medical dividers. After that, you just run past all the enemies(maybe dodge-roll past), down the stairs and shoot the final EMP. Then set up the bottom of the stairs as your Alamo, killing guys as they come down towards you.

    The key is to get all 3 EMPs before too many enemies spawn/get into position.

    It works all the way through heroic, and is the fastest/best method I've been able to discover for that. Not only does it drop the EMPs faster so you can use your skills, but it beats the time-limit that phase of the mission has. This is on solo. For groups where there's hordes of enemies, it might be a bit harder to pull off. Especially if your teammates cower by the elevator.

    However, an interesting thing to note about missions with EMPs like that. And trust me, this will come in handy to know later on. Say there are 3 EMPs. Their effects will overlap, making it impossible to use your skills. However, for each EMP that you break, there's an increasingly large gap for you to use skills between being disrupted.
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  5. #105
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    One other question... last night was the night of supply drops for some reason. I've never seen one before and then last night there was one nearly every 5 minutes it seemed.

    Now, I can usually get one crate open before getting into a fight, and then I can defend another... but so far, I have to sacrifice the third as it's usually not possible to defend two at a time.

    How do you guys deal with this situation?
    More damage. Better build.

    That's really all it is. You just have to kill the NPCs fast enough to give you enough time to loot between waves.

    Alternatively, you could just sit back and defend all 3 boxes until they run out of bodies to throw at you, then open them when it's all clear. Might take awhile tho.
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  6. #106
    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    Sound easy enough ... my problem was that after I took the first crate, I hunkered down behind some good cover to protect the 2nd crate, and while I was doing that, they took the 3rd crate which I couldn't really see or cover. The crates seem spread out enough that it's hard to cover all three and enemies seem to come from multiple directions. Once I tried to get aggressive on the offence to clear the area without using cover and learned a lesson
    Takes some practice to get used to - I definitely had trouble capturing all three the first few times. You'll start to get a better feel for site lines and expected spawns over time [this is also where it's helpful to know weakpoints, in case you can hit an explosive bag/chest before their squad spreads out]. There are also some locations that are easier/harder to cover.
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  7. #107
    Virtual-Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Those are enemies with an LMG. I've developed several ways to handle them.

    • Their weak point is on backpack full of ammo that cooks off very nicely if you damage it. You can just shoot the weak point (perhaps difficult if they're not up and about), or hit it with a Demolisher Firefly (a skill more useful than it looks at first glance).
    • Dropping a grenade on them will usually force them up and possibly even damage them if they can't get out of the way in time. If they don't get up, well, they get what they deserve.
    • Directing their aggro elsewhere (such as by focusing an Assault Turret on them) will let you shoot them at your leisure. You'll almost invariably be doing headshots on them, but they do have a helmet you need to shoot off first. I think that they also take a break to reload from time to time.

    All of these techniques, except for the weak point one, are also good against an enemy on a minigun but, since those generally have little cover or armour, you can often just kill them quickly enough (particularly with headshots) that you won't take much damage from them. Getting them while they're on their way to the minigun works even better, of course.
    Tonight I purchased the turret skill. That thing is way over powered but pure gold against bosses - especially those with machine guns. I was surprised how much abuse the turret could take. It’s like an Energizer Bunny. It’s my new fav toy in this game. I now keep that equipped on interior missions and switch to seeker mines when roaming the streets.

    I don’t think I’ve thrown a single regular frag grenade in this game in 12 levels now. LOL. I guess I better try those out. Any suggestions on when it’s most helpful to use then (besides what you already mentioned above?)

    I got another Super 90 tonight and went on a rampage on the streets. Man that thing is fun.

    An M1A finally dropped tonight. But I haven’t had a chance to try it. I can see why it was on the nerfing block. It does 70% more damage than the MK17. Unfortunately, as I said before, I’m just not into playing with guns as old as me so it won’t be a regular part of my kit.
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  8. #108
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    I don’t think I’ve thrown a single regular frag grenade in this game in 12 levels now. LOL. I guess I better try those out. Any suggestions on when it’s most helpful to use then (besides what you already mentioned above?)
    A grenade is often a good way to start a battle if a group of enemies are closely clustered together; not only do the enemies usually get hit by it if they're not already fairly alert, but you can drop it and then have a couple of seconds to deploy a skill and switch back to a weapon before it goes off.

    In battle, enemies will generally move out of range before the grenade goes off, but simply getting them to move, especially out of cover, can be useful. They can also be used to set off things such as the cloud from the firestarter chem launcher, as well as nearby environmental explosive items.

    I don't use regular grenades a lot, but I do use them. As usual, they're one of the weapons that you should probably focus on for a bit at some point to learn their behaviour.

    For what it's worth, I've been using the Mk17 quite a bit in the last few days as I level up a secondary character with a friend. UIC15 MOD2s have not been dropping all that frequently, and I have the blueprint for the Mk17, so I usually just construct one of those after every couple of level-ups. It's actually fairly pleasing, and I do like the higher fire rate, but I've found that it really needs the Omega 7.62 Rifle Suppressor (+20% Stability, -10% Optimal Range) on it to get the stability up to the point where it works at range, which is slightly annoying as otherwise I'd be able to add another 5% criticial hit chance to it with another mod. (And losing 10% of optimal range is slightly annoying, too, as I'm not using the ACOG scope but instead the 3.4x scope that provides +5% critical hit chance. That one has exactly the same zoom as the 4x ACOG, BTW, despite the spec ostensibly being different.
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  9. #109
    Virtual-Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    A grenade is often a good way to start a battle if a group of enemies are closely clustered together; not only do the enemies usually get hit by it if they're not already fairly alert, but you can drop it and then have a couple of seconds to deploy a skill and switch back to a weapon before it goes off.

    In battle, enemies will generally move out of range before the grenade goes off, but simply getting them to move, especially out of cover, can be useful. They can also be used to set off things such as the cloud from the firestarter chem launcher, as well as nearby environmental explosive items.

    I don't use regular grenades a lot, but I do use them. As usual, they're one of the weapons that you should probably focus on for a bit at some point to learn their behaviour.

    For what it's worth, I've been using the Mk17 quite a bit in the last few days as I level up a secondary character with a friend. UIC15 MOD2s have not been dropping all that frequently, and I have the blueprint for the Mk17, so I usually just construct one of those after every couple of level-ups. It's actually fairly pleasing, and I do like the higher fire rate, but I've found that it really needs the Omega 7.62 Rifle Suppressor (+20% Stability, -10% Optimal Range) on it to get the stability up to the point where it works at range, which is slightly annoying as otherwise I'd be able to add another 5% criticial hit chance to it with another mod. (And losing 10% of optimal range is slightly annoying, too, as I'm not using the ACOG scope but instead the 3.4x scope that provides +5% critical hit chance. That one has exactly the same zoom as the 4x ACOG, BTW, despite the spec ostensibly being different.
    Good advice on the grenade. I'll make it a point tonight to ensure I get a good feel for it.

    Interesting on the MK17... I really do like the MK17 after trying most other guns, but I've been fortunate, as the Theater Settlement Vendor has been selling it the last week allowing me to keep it up to my level. I gather that might change now as the shops change their stuff every Tuesday?

    Where do I find the MK17 blueprint?! That is a must have for me!
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  10. #110
    Licher.Rus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    Where do I find the MK17 blueprint?! That is a must have for me!
    You will get it eventually.
    At least I have custom police Mk17 blueprint at my 40 lvl bench
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