Testing Grounds Megathread - April 1-8 | Forums

[DeeFautBoi34]

First off, I have heard about the 80% hit rate. Like I said, I was fine with the soft feint removal, which was probably the main reason for the attack hitting so much. Let alone the 80% also counts for guaranteed Demon's Embraces as well, so the exact percentage of hits from the mix-up is unclear.

I should make it clear that Demon's Embrace is supposed to be a high-risk/high-reward move. The risk is obvious with the insanely long recovery time, but the reward is too small in the testing grounds. Understanding that most light attacks do more than 10 damage means that even if you do pull off a Demon's Embrace, with how much harder it is to land, it only takes one quick light to remove all the damage you healed and then some. Now if the Devs didn't get rid of the soft feint, I could understand a slight damage and healing nerf. But when the move has become so much harder to land, it only makes sense to keep the original damage and healing value.

Due to Demon's Embrace being so much harder to land, giving hyper armor back wouldn't be too bad. It would allow you to land it, if the enemy is being too careless. Let alone getting light attacked out of your moves all the time isn't fun regardless of what character your playing. That is why I feel that having hyper armor on a slow and reactable attack is not going to make it that much stronger, but it will at least make the move a bit more threatening.

Ok I test this out on testing grounds. Tou can fient your unblockable charged heavy to a demon embrace. Its possible to trick the Opponent that's why I think it should do less damage and more health but with no hyperarmor but the recovery time needs to be faster.

[MCBooma16]

I'm going to simply say what I like without iterating too much like I did with the last testing grounds. Let me begin.

The April 1-8 TG were a lot of fun. I especially had fun with Zhanhu.

All of Zhanhu's changes are arguably what everyone has been asking for. Those changes are exactly what we all thought Zhanhu's limitless description should have been since release. He's truly a stronger duelist and a much better team fighter, and I think it's all perfect. However, Zhanhu's forward dodge light having been slowed down effectively killed the move as an actual chain option. In the Testing Grounds it was purely a defensive option, but could not be used offensively. Granted, his dodge attacks are enhanced, but the forward dodge light never landed in my experiences.

Shugoki. I shouldn't have to say this, but giving Shugoki an answer for bashes made all the difference. His bash in general is threatening since its fast AND does damage and Shugoki can now better allow opponents to play his game. I don't really understand the reasoning for turning Oni Charge into a specific tool for rotating. Like Shinobi, they have fast rotating abilities and nothing else. They could have given the move more knockdown utility. I literally had a Shugoki stall at the end of a game like a Shinobi and run around the map. Forward dodge heavy was simply necessary. I shouldn't have to explain.

Aramusha. Alongside Zhanhu, there are some real limitless possibilities with the character and he flows so much better. I've seen Faraam have a blast with Aramusha so far and you can now see that Aramusha is a very good antiganker with his new guarenteed damage blade blockade tools as well as his SFs to Ring The Bell. His pressure is much better. It was a great decision to remove the limits on what side Aramusha could continue the chain. He's a lot less predictable and honestly gave me some trouble in the TG.

Hitokiri. Oh my gosh. This character became a monster in the Testing Grounds. To be honest, I simply could not deal with Hitokiri's new pressure and I actively tried to disengage from a Hitokiri as much as possible... She's another character with unrelenting offense that can cripple you on one or two wrong reads, which brings me to something I think is an issue. With her new pressure from a few simple changes, I feel her damage was a little overtuned. I might get stuck in a vortex and get hit 2 or 3 times with kicks for 24dmg each. Not to mention 5 chip damage for any subsequent attacks that can add up a good deal, so in just two kicks I could be looking at over half my health on a first encounter gone.

I would recommend reducing her heavy damage from 24 to 20 or 22.

Jiang Jun and Berserker had small changes. The Berserker ones were hardly noticeable but I know they help. Jiang Jun's quicker bash pressure, as well as a guarenteed heavy off a GB makes him more flexible, which always helps.

Gladiator. Nice changes. His flow was better and could sustain a solid pressure in a lot of situations. He's just better, I can't complain.

With all of these changes in mind, there is one problem this will bring up. From what I've noticed, testing ground fights were extremely fast-paced. Some characters like Valkyrie, Shaolin, PK, Jorm, etc, would never be able to compete with those 7 heroes and their changes consistently.

Valkyrie and Shaolin specifically have very few answers for the new unrelenting offense of the 7 TG changes. Valkyrie is very slow---both lights and heavies. She can be option selected by mindless dodging of her mid and finisher chains consistently since her heavies don't track too well, and her dodge lights are too slow. Her deflect is too weak. Since her attacks are pokes, any feints to lights seldom work to catch dodges. She's really weak to characters with good dodge attacks and i-frames, which every single character in the Testing Grounds received. This effectively puts Valkyrie very low on a dominion tier list, and she has become unviable with these new changes.

Shaolin isn't much better. His flow is bad and he can't keep continuous and unrelenting offense going like Berserker, Hitokiri, Aramusha, Zhanhu, Gladiator, Or JJ. After every Qi light finisher, Shaolin is frame disadvantaged, which is bad. His damage is overall just too low. His Qi stance Crushing Counters do not warrent enough damage as a decent defensive tool, especially for being immobile in the stance. His dodge heavy is way too slow.

All in all, Valkyrie and Shaolin have been rendered unviable picks. The changes to the 7 aforementioned characters are so powerful that certain characters simply cannot compete against them.

All of the Testing Ground changes were fantastic. Hito may be overtuned, but overall I had a lot of fun. I cannot compete against the characters with Valkyrie or Shaolin. They just aren't good enough.

I love the reworks and changes being introduced.

More work needs to be done with other characters, and I'm excited to see what the team has to offer.

[Csodaszarvas_G]

Valkyrie and Shaolin specifically have very few answers for the new unrelenting offense of the 7 TG changes. Valkyrie is very slow---both lights and heavies. She can be option selected by mindless dodging of her mid and finisher chains consistently since her heavies don't track too well, and her dodge lights are too slow. Her deflect is too weak. Since her attacks are pokes, any feints to lights seldom work to catch dodges. She's really weak to characters with good dodge attacks and i-frames, which every single character in the Testing Grounds received. This effectively puts Valkyrie very low on a dominion tier list, and she has become unviable with these new changes.

I completely agree with this, especially with the part about Valkyrie, but I guess we need to wait for that to change until Valkyrie's inclusion into a possible TG in the future. I can't comment about the other heroes since I don't play them.

I thought a lot about a Valkyrie rework, since she is my 3rd favorite hero (everyone needs a "amazon" after all) and although it is not really the time to talk about her because we didn't even receive the already tested changes, I still would like to write them down. And BTW nobody is in a hurry, anybody will be able to look this up when Valkyrie will be relevant.

So, here it goes:

Light Attacks:
- Damage overhaul --> chain starters 10 DMG, chain lights 11 or 12 DMG, light finisher DMG shouldn't be changed
- Chain lights and top light finishers should be faster, 400 ms perhaps
- Chain starter lights should be enhanced (I'm not sure about this one from a balance perspective, but it would be cool)

Heavy Attacks:
- Chain starter heavies and chain heavies should be faster by 100 ms (not finishers)
- All heavy attacks should have a bit better tracking
- All heavy attacks should have a bigger hit-box
- Top heavy finisher should be unblockable (no DMG changes, again not really sure that it is necessary, bit I would definitely welcome it)

Stamina:
- Reduced stamina cost on Shield Tackle (the soft-feint bash), entering into full-block, exiting from full-block via either a feint or a Shield Tackle, Spear Sweep

Deflects:
- Add either 5 extra bleed or direct DMG to Shoulder Pin
- Light dodge attacks after a deflect should be guaranteed as well, with 5 extra bleed DMG (only after deflect)
- Guaranteed GB is fine, shouldn't be changed.

Zone Attack:
- The first hit counts as a chain starter heavy, so it can be feinted like now, but it has new soft-feint options:
1. Shield Tackle
2. Chain light
3. Chain heavy
4. Dodge (potential cancel into deflect or full-block)
- The first and second hits consume stamina separately (30-30 or 20-20)

Sprint Attack:
- It should function as a heavy chain starter, therefore it could be chained into:
1. Chain light
2. Chain heavy
- It should have more forward momentum to chase down fleeing opponents

Dodge Attack:
- It should be faster a bit (maybe enhanced)

Full-block:
- Valkyrie should be able to cancel out from it with a forward or side dodge (potential cancel into deflect). Not with backwards dodge because entering full-block from full-block makes no sense.

New option (not really that new):
- She should have her headbutt back (it was named Ram's headbutt if I remember it right) but in a different role --> guaranteed parry punish:
1. GB input immediately after a parry
2. Causes 10 or 15 stamina damage
3. Pushes back and stuns the opponent
4. Can wallsplat and ledge
5. Only causes stamina pause after a wallsplat (around 1 second)
6. Chains into chain lights or heavies, furthermore into dodge
7. Because of the push-back it normally guarantees a dodge forward light, if it wallspalts the punish is a chain heavy

She also should have some kind of a undodgeable attack, maybe make her side light finishers or forward dodge light undodgeable, it's just a suggestion.

I can't think of other changes for now, feel free to add others if you would like to.

Thanks for reading, have a nice day!