Senior Member
We all know Orochi has become very weak.
The rework slowing his light chains down was alright pre CCU, but now, amongst a sea of heroes with totally unreactable chains and other moves, he should be sped back up.
Speed dodge lights up by 100ms (to be the same as Tiandi) and make enhanced like the new Zerk enhanced lights. (Give Orochi a little OOMPH with easy tweaks that don't require new animations.)
Speed his light chains back up to before the most recent rework. (466ms?)
Speed up all neutral and finisher heavies by 100ms.
Orochi would be properly threatening if he were faster and it wouldn't be as problematic now because we have frame advantage and disadvantage.
Before, Orochi was too fast and had a 3 light combo that could be repeated for easy wins. The issue is he could do it safely and consistently whereas now, you would just be light attacked out of the rotation.
He really should just be faster all around and get enhanced dodge lights like Zerk is testing out (if they are favorable, of course). If the damage ends up too high for that speed, lower it a little. I'd way rather have my attacks be more threatening with a little less damage than telegraphed and easily parried/option selected.
Orochi is just fodder right now unless you are a GM or something.
Not gonna lie, I had a GM whoop me with Orochi by double and triple deflecting me. It was awesome, and slightly mind boggling. LOL
Member
Orochi is definitely being left behind. I don’t get how a counter attacker is forced to be aggressive because other than deflect our defense abilities suck. Riptide is a joke, we also run out of stamina very fast for how much damage we can do and are forced to retreat. There are more and more cancel dodge attacks players are getting but not orochi. Our dodge attack is also a light and the easiest timed. Warden gets muilti direction UB and we get one way. Reflex guard of course. What exactly do we have that makes us anything to fear?
Junior Member
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It's funny because yesterday, I was trying him out a bit until rep 1, and I was wondering if I wouldn't make a thread about him because I really felt unequipped.
I was wondering if it was the usual gap between being matched with my player skill and trying a new kit but I m happy to see that I m not the only one who think he kind of lack peoper tool to be a good pick.
Against a warmonger it is just a joke of a character. I wonder why can he only cancel his finisher recovery, why don't he have any soft feints, why only one side unblockable (I m fine with it for kensei but he has plenty of soft feint possibility around it) why is only the top riptide strike undodgeable ?
And most of all, I always thought orochi lights were faster but they seem to be pretty standard. A lot of hero can keep the frame advantage and lightspam me (which is quite ironic)
Reflex guard is a mess but it's for all assassins, the only good thing is his deflect, which is honestly required to win anything without just using the boring top UB pressure.
I do not wonder anymore why is there so few orochiin my 4v4 match usually and very few more in duels (compared to when I started the game). I love the kit, the exec, the customs, but when you fight a warmonger who can cancel her bash, gb, and drink a tea on reaction to your dodge, mmmh maybe Orochi would need some love too
He is not weak tho, I would say he is skill requiring, but for bad reasons, which is a poorly designed and outdated kit compared to the opponents ones (like lawbringer by the way)
Senior Member
There are already heroes like nuxia and tiandi that would still have faster lights even with orochi being faster.Originally Posted by manass92 Go to original post
He was literally slowed down before the ccu and he needs that speed back to be on par with others.
Also, are you seriously complaining about light spam while simultaneously saying "learn to deflect" ?
If you're good enough to consistently deflect, then light spam should be no problem for you. Also, light spam is the receivers fault.
YOU should learn how to counter light spam.
Senior Member
Orochi requires deflects to win consistently. That's just sad. With the ccu, deflects and parries are more difficult than ever and Orochi relies on them. Piss poor hero and I have 34 reps on him. Haven't played him much in the past few months.Originally Posted by AbuZnood Go to original post
Member
Ok if yall think Orochi sucks then yall really need to go to training. Do yall forgot he has a storm rush, a unblockable finisher heavy for pressure and a great max punish. He does not need to deflect for damage. Remember he is a assassin so they shouldn't even be doing high damage.Originally Posted by MrBdur Go to original post
He is literally so good and the fact that you get parried was your fault. Literally I don't see any problems with him. Orochi is good enough in my opinion who they should focus on is Shinobi.
Senior Member
I've fought Bdur personally and while I won't say he's a top tier player he's certainly better than most players I fight in MM. For the most part they know their stuff.Originally Posted by DeeFautBoi34 Go to original post
Storm rush can be interrupted if committed to too often. There's a timing to learn where you hit them when they can no longer cancel out of it. You can also simply block top and back dodge on a single timing to avoid all of it's options. Or simply block the fastest side and react to the other two if you have some better than average reactions. More to the point though Storm rush is awful at dodging most moves and doesn't have any decent follow up after besides the unblockable. So it's not like it even landing does much for orochi.
The unblockable itself can be option selected in most cases. Unless Orochi himself lands a heavy in which you trade with the unblockable.
Orochi offers literally nothing in dominion that you can't find elsewhere. Anything he can do other characters can do better. As far as duels go the only two things keeping him from being the worst duelist is the fact that he has a dodge attack to punish bashes and an access to an unblockable. Aramusha and Jorm are both worse than him purely because they cannot punish bashes. Jorm has access to an unblockable and that doesn't save him from being the worst duelist hero in the game right now. So you can see even having an unblockable doesn't mean you're in a good spot.
Bdur is correct in needing deflects. This is because Defensively speaking orochi is okay. He can situationally punish certain bashes/attacks with back dodge light which nets him a higher than average damage punish when comparing to dodge attacks. His zone is pretty good for option selecting due to it's speed and relative trajectories. And his deflect can net decent damage since you'll be dodge selecting semi often with him.
If you're finding consistent success with him you're fighting bad players. That's really all there is to it. Perhaps the reason you see no issues with Orochi is because your grasp of the game's fundamentals doesn't persist beyond teaspoon depth.
Senior Member
orochi can be good only for a few dedicated MS and GMs that almost only play him.For thousand hours.
These people can deflect a lot of attacks and mix very well plus excelent reading skill. But they are hold down by their own char preference. Maybe 1% of orochi players are so good and commited, homever no top 20 players in the world are using orochis to my knowledge.
In a way they remind myself with my Pk (they specialize in an underdog)but now even Pk is better than their char.
Unless they are Gm`s They can only have a lot of success against new, bad or not so focused players, I can only lose to them if they are really good AND if I´m not that focused, the second I focus at 100% they are done.
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