Testing Ground: No optionselect | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I am pretty sure optionselects could be removed easily, and while some might be balanced, they make defense harder.

Outright removing them might be much, but a TG would be worthwhile for this topic.

[Knight_Raime]

I really doubt that. The amount of damage caused to the game by a lack of input sanitization is pretty insane. Like. It goes deeper than regular zone option selects. MUCH deeper. It's how things like slippy tech even exist. And partially why unlock tech was a thing.

The devs have 3 options. Creating an input sanitizing thing for the game. Making parrying as an action have the lowest possible priority when multiple actions can happen. Or trying to address each option select as it's own thing.

The former two are likely difficult to do because of how janky the games code is. And the latter is much more time consuming on top of having to worry about how clunky something might end up feeling. Heck. They introduced some clunk when they added frame disadvantage.

Sure we could "easily" address some option selects like conqs zone by delaying the FB frames after the first feint window.

But how do you propose they balance something like nobushi parrying with her back light input. Or bashes?

If it were an easy fix I feel like it would've been handled already. The devs had and afaik still have direct contact with the competitive side of the community and have had it for a very long time. The comp community has been very vocal about bash and gb selects at least for several months.

So either it's not an easy fix. Or the devs simply don't believe either to be a problem worth dedicating resources to even though they made a stance against option selects that were not zone based ones ages ago.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I really doubt that. The amount of damage caused to the game by a lack of input sanitization is pretty insane. Like. It goes deeper than regular zone option selects. MUCH deeper. It's how things like slippy tech even exist. And partially why unlock tech was a thing.

The devs have 3 options. Creating an input sanitizing thing for the game. Making parrying as an action have the lowest possible priority when multiple actions can happen. Or trying to address each option select as it's own thing.

The former two are likely difficult to do because of how janky the games code is. And the latter is much more time consuming on top of having to worry about how clunky something might end up feeling. Heck. They introduced some clunk when they added frame disadvantage.

Sure we could "easily" address some option selects like conqs zone by delaying the FB frames after the first feint window.

But how do you propose they balance something like nobushi parrying with her back light input. Or bashes?

If it were an easy fix I feel like it would've been handled already. The devs had and afaik still have direct contact with the competitive side of the community and have had it for a very long time. The comp community has been very vocal about bash and gb selects at least for several months.

So either it's not an easy fix. Or the devs simply don't believe either to be a problem worth dedicating resources to even though they made a stance against option selects that were not zone based ones ages ago.

Making parry the lowest priority would work well imo. At the same time, they should raise the heavy input in priority, so if someone is messing with key bindings, the move they do will always result in a heavy. Or just don't allow buttons with conflicting key bindings.

The best would be changing how parrying works: if you press anything but your heavy attack button, and only that, the chosen move will be performed with no parry. If you press zone for example, you zone.

The coding can handle backwalk differently as known from zerk's special back zone, so the backwalk light could be eliminated instantly as well: it is a different move, you move slightly back, but if you do that, the move gets no superior block properties.

[Knight_Raime]

Making parry the lowest priority would work well imo. At the same time, they should raise the heavy input in priority, so if someone is messing with key bindings, the move they do will always result in a heavy. Or just don't allow buttons with conflicting key bindings.

The best would be changing how parrying works: if you press anything but your heavy attack button, and only that, the chosen move will be performed with no parry. If you press zone for example, you zone.

The coding can handle backwalk differently as known from zerk's special back zone, so the backwalk light could be eliminated instantly as well: it is a different move, you move slightly back, but if you do that, the move gets no superior block properties.

Do the devs have a stance against key bindings? I genuinely don't know how they feel about people binding 2 actions to a single button.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Do the devs have a stance against key bindings? I genuinely don't know how they feel about people binding 2 actions to a single button.

Since there is no official statement/guide where they say it can be done and advised to be done, it is basically cheating, using a loophole in the coding. And I honestly think zone os is the same thing.

[MCBooma16]

I honestly think zone option selecting is fine within the game, as they're punishable with a parry, and even external option selects can be punished by characters with crushing counters. This is another tool players are able to use in 1vX scenarios, and I feel without option selects as a viable form of defense, fights will generally become more lopsided for a lot of characters.

I still feel Conqueror's zone option select is a little unhealthy, but maybe I just don't get teammates who know that UB feint to GB isn't a viable option against them... It appears there are a lot of people who don't take into account that option selects exist, and tend to never punish them.

Variable-timed neutral heavy option selects. Probably not as affective as most zone option selects, but I think they're fine.

Backstep-light option selects. I think every character with crushing counter capabilities should not be able to backstep light at all. In the case of you feinting, the opponent can safely gain distance and reset. In the case of you committing, you may take crushing counter damage, as well as the opponent gaining distance. It's cheesy and unhealthy in my opinion.

Zerk's backward zone is unhealthy in my opinion.

Other than that, I think anyone else who thinks regular zone option selects need to go, I won't argue with you. Just get good...

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I honestly think zone option selecting is fine within the game, as they're punishable with a parry, and even external option selects can be punished by characters with crushing counters. This is another tool players are able to use in 1vX scenarios, and I feel without option selects as a viable form of defense, fights will generally become more lopsided for a lot of characters.

I still feel Conqueror's zone option select is a little unhealthy, but maybe I just don't get teammates who know that UB feint to GB isn't a viable option against them... It appears there are a lot of people who don't take into account that option selects exist, and tend to never punish them.

Variable-timed neutral heavy option selects. Probably not as affective as most zone option selects, but I think they're fine.

Backstep-light option selects. I think every character with crushing counter capabilities should not be able to backstep light at all. In the case of you feinting, the opponent can safely gain distance and reset. In the case of you committing, you may take crushing counter damage, as well as the opponent gaining distance. It's cheesy and unhealthy in my opinion.

Zerk's backward zone is unhealthy in my opinion.

Other than that, I think anyone else who thinks regular zone option selects need to go, I won't argue with you. Just get good...

Zone optionselects are not that unhealthy, it is also punishable as you said. However, it is still not an intended mechanic, otherwise there wouldn't be two characters in the game without them. If they are intended, then they are not balanced well at all.

I understand how optionselects work, but if there are like five of them you have to look out for against certain heroes, it genuienely cripples offense greatly.

[King_of_Xibalba]

I think only emote OS should really go, far far toxic than any zone OS, today a wrlord did it to me and jeez it was infuriating at some point.
unpunishable parry attempt how great...

[MCBooma16]

Zone optionselects are not that unhealthy, it is also punishable as you said. However, it is still not an intended mechanic, otherwise there wouldn't be two characters in the game without them. If they are intended, then they are not balanced well at all.

I understand how optionselects work, but if there are like five of them you have to look out for against certain heroes, it genuienely cripples offense greatly.

That means you just need to play more and get better. There are 28 characters in the game, that means you have to learn all of what they can do to be the most prepared.

Option selects were probably discovered by accident, but that doesn't mean we need to get rid of them all together. Any experienced players will punish a zone OS person almost right away as soon as they get the chance if they see them doing it often. Make it one of those things to look out for.

Again, defense would get kind of obliterated without the ability to use a zone as an option select. Imagine getting ganked by 3 or 4 characters with good UB pressure and not being able to have a good way to properly deal with it other than to 1: fall for parries. 2: parry and get lucky. 3: dodge and potentially get hit with undodgeables.

Instead of making defense worse, players should actually punish option selects appropriately. You can parry them, deflect them, CC them, and in some cases interupt them with a feint to light. You don't have any excuse.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

That means you just need to play more and get better. There are 28 characters in the game, that means you have to learn all of what they can do to be the most prepared.

Option selects were probably discovered by accident, but that doesn't mean we need to get rid of them all together. Any experienced players will punish a zone OS person almost right away as soon as they get the chance if they see them doing it often. Make it one of those things to look out for.

Again, defense would get kind of obliterated without the ability to use a zone as an option select. Imagine getting ganked by 3 or 4 characters with good UB pressure and not being able to have a good way to properly deal with it other than to 1: fall for parries. 2: parry and get lucky. 3: dodge and potentially get hit with undodgeables.

Instead of making defense worse, players should actually punish option selects appropriately. You can parry them, deflect them, CC them, and in some cases interupt them with a feint to light. You don't have any excuse.

You misunderstand what I write. I understand how OS works, I use them, I punish them. But I think it would be interesting to see how the game would work without them.

If there would be a 100% friendly fire, mindless ub spam would not be a problem.