Balance light attacks | Forums

[MrBdur]

Cut their damage in half

Reduce speed across the board by 100ms

Modify light parries to be in line with heavy parries

That means all parries are the same and are universally used to end the opponents chain and begin your own. No more free heavies for players who can still light parry neutral lights on reaction and no more (consistently successful) light spamming for noobs.

Essentially this weakens light attacks on their own and kills most light spam while simultaneously reducing the punishment for using them too much.

This makes it less frustrating to eat lots of lights and also easier to defend against light spam while ALSO reducing the risk of using them.

This turns light attacks into their proper low risk = low reward.

Thoughts?

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I would go for this root if we could start over:

Lights deal low damage, are all enchanced and 600ms. They can be infinite chained but cost more and more stamina. Parrying stops the chain, but gives no free damage, only some unique advantage (like Lawbringer entering blind justice mixup).

[JKnu_teCH]

Lights should be faster not slower, u want to return to starring turtles ? I believe Barak said for him is 70% read based. I play with 144hz and while is more fluid i don't réaction parry, at least not consistent except the most telegraphed lights like orochis, zuanhu etc. You have option to avoid lights even if you don't parry them.. I saw that you prefer pré ccu gameplay from ur posts here, i don't judge u but ain't gonna work, even if you reduce the damage you will get réaction parried, lawdaddy will be thé best duelist like before.

[MrBdur]

Lights should be faster not slower, u want to return to starring turtles ? I believe Barak said for him is 70% read based. I play with 144hz and while is more fluid i don't réaction parry, at least not consistent except the most telegraphed lights like orochis, zuanhu etc. You have option to avoid lights even if you don't parry them.. I saw that you prefer pré ccu gameplay from ur posts here, i don't judge u but ain't gonna work, even if you reduce the damage you will get réaction parried, lawdaddy will be thé best duelist like before.

No I don't prefer pre ccu. I prefer post ccu. I just had issues with the hidden indicators for a bit but I have long since agreed that they are necessary. I always agreed with the rest of the ccu though.

If you paid attention, youd notice I said make light parries the same as heavy parries, so who cares if you get parried. That's the point.

Make lights easier to defend against while also reducing the risk of using them.

Obviously just slowing lights down is a terrible idea. Free heavies all day long. Bad idea.

[MrBdur]

I would go for this root if we could start over:

Lights deal low damage, are all enchanced and 600ms. They can be infinite chained but cost more and more stamina. Parrying stops the chain, but gives no free damage, only some unique advantage (like Lawbringer entering blind justice mixup).

Oh hey I like these tweaks to the original idea. I would still prefer parries to give a free light attack as opposed to zero free damage. It makes it so parries allow you to begin a combo.

[Knight_Raime]

IIRC they actually did ask people if they wanted lights and heavies to reward the same reward and the community was wholistically against that. Personally I wanted that, but people enjoy the idea/feeling of landing a "hard" parry and getting good damage. As long as this game is about getting guaranteed damage it's going to be problematic. Personally I want all lights to be faster and parrying anything to not give a reward but frame advantage. But current state of the game is good enough for me minus feat balance.

[JKnu_teCH]

So best parry punishes wins, doesn't matter thé damage output of the lights damage if you can parry them. I carry if i'm getting parried with à wall or ledge behind against WM, Lb. When you say to make lights easier to défend you meaning in duels perspective ? In dom they are allready to weak, you can dodge them, OS them, external block them. They are weak when you need to wiff à light to enter your chain. In duel even if parry is not possible, frame avantage is very good, you gain ur light and you are în your chain, so IMO is kind of easy to défend against lights, just have to adapt to your oponent.To me lights are pretty balanced, if you manage to hit me with lights 3 Times that's 30-40 dmg, if i parry just one i can punish you with 25-35.

[MrBdur]

So best parry punishes wins, doesn't matter thé damage output of the lights damage if you can parry them. I carry if i'm getting parried with à wall or ledge behind against WM, Lb. When you say to make lights easier to défend you meaning in duels perspective ? In dom they are allready to weak, you can dodge them, OS them, external block them. They are weak when you need to wiff à light to enter your chain. In duel even if parry is not possible, frame avantage is very good, you gain ur light and you are în your chain, so IMO is kind of easy to défend against lights, just have to adapt to your oponent.To me lights are pretty balanced, if you manage to hit me with lights 3 Times that's 30-40 dmg, if i parry just one i can punish you with 25-35.

We could duel and I can show the difference between us if you're on Xbox. If you're on PC, then your opinion makes sense. Light spam isnt an issue on PC with 100+fps.

[Gaser.]

Making them slower is a big no no.

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

My two cents:

1. Lights keep their current speed. Fast/unreactable lights are needed to give flow to the fight. We don't want staring contests again. At the same time, they shouldn't be faster(except for Warden's 600ms lights) since the community won't react to well to that, given the mixed reception to the CCU and the Testing Grounds prior to it. Also, if neutral lights are too fast then they would be used to stuff offense on reaction like LB's top light of old. The devs need to continue to explore other ways to improve offense.
2. Reduce light damage. Light spam's strength resides in its combination of speed/unreactability and damage to the point lights are low-risk high reward. Reducing damage of offense in general would give more players time to make reads and make the game more accessible/inclusive.
3. Remove free heavy from light parries. Yes, I agree with MrBdur on this. If the damage of lights are going to be reduced, then the punishment for them getting parried should be reduced as well or higher level players will feel lights are not worth throwing and they would be right to a point. While turtling isn't as viable as it used to be, this change would hit the nail in the coffin and force the light parry maniacs to try something different. A free light for the parry should be fine.
4. Reduce the stamina costs of lights back to 6 or lower. The stamina nerf of lights was pointless given the fact that light spamming heroes like the Orochi can still throw 4 full light chains before running out of stamina with each chain doing around 40 damage, if not over. With stamina being a shared pool, the stamina nerf only succeeded in reducing offense overall so the progress we got from the stamina penalties removal was lost. We are still not attacking more as we hoped.
5. Lights shouldn't have hyper armour. While only a few heroes have this feature, this makes fights more frustrating. Armoured lights are either stuffing offense on reaction or forcing the defenders to wait their turn.