For the love of god | Forums

[MrGrippz]

Here's how you beat Raiders:

https://youtu.be/mp28JPs25ek

You welcome!

[MrBdur]

Here's how you beat Raiders:

https://youtu.be/mp28JPs25ek

You welcome!

Damn dude. How long has this tutorial been on youtube? F*ck Raider. I CAN BEAT ANYONE NOW!!!!

[Knight_Raime]

It's silly because lately I've been managing to parry even Tiandi lights quite a lot and then Raider just ruins me 🤣🤣

They don't even need to be great, I'm just trying to parry the dang ol storming tap and I get hit with the heavies instead and then I try to parry the heavies and I'm eating 10 storming taps in a row thinking "this is the time he commits to the heavy". Lol

I don't know why but Raider just gets in my head and it's funny because if I play Raider I get slapped. Obviously it's just something I'm doing wrong against this particular hero and it's most likely that I always try to parry them.

Yeah see that's something I noticed from you when we dueled for a bit. You really love going for those parries. I stopped going for parries a long time ago purely because I find the payout of getting in someone's headspace to be a more enjoyable experience. Plus I got my fill of parrying from maining Cent as long as I did. d:

But yeah I get you. Some days Raider is a joke, other days he slaps me silly because of big brain unga bunga plays. I don't even find it upsetting anymore. I just laugh that funny man with beeg stick does the damage.

[Col.Bullet]

I don't play Raider. But this is a very good thread, love the communication here!

[MrBdur]

I don't play Raider. But this is a very good thread, love the communication here!

Yeah, we're pretty cool.

Jk. Thanks for the compliment

We always try our best to be civil, but it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes you just gotta call the idiots what they are.

[MCBooma16]

At higher levels, you typically need to try much harder with Raider. Better players know Raiders like to trade and try and trick with storming tap. Better players also know to never dodge attack against mid chain attacks and generally aren't scared of neutral zones. You can't trade against Raider.

To play Raider, you need to get in your opponent's head quicker. Your heavies are slow and your lights are just lights. Your top light finisher is a dead move. Your HA won't scare a patient opponent. Your SFs from normal heavies typically aren't scary enough for anyone to fall for them unless you've been playing too predictably and letting heavies go.

You need to eventually get fancy with hard feints and properly utilize your chained zone, which does a whopping 38 dmg and 50 in revenge.

You CAN GB opponents while taking advantage of your HA. Since Raider's HA starts pretty early, you can even feint your heavy after HA has already started, and you can get a GB if someone decided they wanted to try and interupt you. Being able to SF from any heavy makes this easy. Personally, I always do this by accident, but there have been times where I was able to get a cheeky ledge against a dumb opponent by making a proper read.

Light into chained zone is unsafe and always interuptable with a light of your opponent. The same can be said for Warden, Kensei and Zhanhu if they try and chain their UBs from light attacks. Both the neutral zone and chained zone have unbelievable recovery and do not grant you frame advantage. You will be frame disadvantaged after every zone.

A landed right heavy into chained zone is also unsafe, as there's this strange forced delay for no reason that results in an opponent being able to interupt with a light. This isn't the case if the attack is blocked or if you chain from another heavy direction.

Raider is all around very good in my opinion. He does lack a very solid opener, which is why he struggles higher up. However, a solid mix of HA, SFs, hard feints, and chained zones along with even neutral zones can be very valueable tools.

Raider's dodge attack is kind of quick and is really his only major defensive move. Everything else is to the discretion of the player taking risks with parries, as he doesn't have Crushing Counters or superior blocks like other vangaurds, hybrids, or heavies.

Forward dodge GB is excellent for closing the distance. Some players don't see it coming if you're off-screen to them in a group fight. Forward-dodge storming tap can also be used to catch a rolls if timed correctly.

Raider is one of those characters that can crush skulls at lower levels but is also the type of character that can be swatted and dealt with rather easily against experienced and knowledgeable opponents. In order to be as effective as possible with Raider at the highest level, you must read your opponents quickly and you must get fancy with your mixups. If you can scare your opponent simply by paying attention and playing a solid defense, it can have a psychological affect on them and your mixups may force more reactions.

Stampede charge has poor tracking and is easily interuptable. Use it to isolate opponents or set up a gank. If you know your opponent gets scared of a big dude charging at them while they're OOS, use it as a 50/50 GB/Stampede charge mixup.

Before Raider was reworked, Raider was possibly the worst duelist is the game. He was, however, a solid pick for dominion. Stampede charge having lost its super armor was a healthy change. With the introduction of HA, more chains, and SFs, Raider could now live up to his name as being Legendary. In the right hands, Raider can devastate a whole group.

I hope by making this about what Raider CAN do as opposed to what YOU should do to counter Raider, this might make it easier for you to better-predict the playstyle and behavior of typical Raiders out there.

Cheers!

[MrBdur]

At higher levels, you typically need to try much harder with Raider. Better players know Raiders like to trade and try and trick with storming tap. Better players also know to never dodge attack against mid chain attacks and generally aren't scared of neutral zones. You can't trade against Raider.

To play Raider, you need to get in your opponent's head quicker. Your heavies are slow and your lights are just lights. Your top light finisher is a dead move. Your HA won't scare a patient opponent. Your SFs from normal heavies typically aren't scary enough for anyone to fall for them unless you've been playing too predictably and letting heavies go.

You need to eventually get fancy with hard feints and properly utilize your chained zone, which does a whopping 38 dmg and 50 in revenge.

You CAN GB opponents while taking advantage of your HA. Since Raider's HA starts pretty early, you can even feint your heavy after HA has already started, and you can get a GB if someone decided they wanted to try and interupt you. Being able to SF from any heavy makes this easy. Personally, I always do this by accident, but there have been times where I was able to get a cheeky ledge against a dumb opponent by making a proper read.

Light into chained zone is unsafe and always interuptable with a light of your opponent. The same can be said for Warden, Kensei and Zhanhu if they try and chain their UBs from light attacks. Both the neutral zone and chained zone have unbelievable recovery and do not grant you frame advantage. You will be frame disadvantaged after every zone.

A landed right heavy into chained zone is also unsafe, as there's this strange forced delay for no reason that results in an opponent being able to interupt with a light. This isn't the case if the attack is blocked or if you chain from another heavy direction.

Raider is all around very good in my opinion. He does lack a very solid opener, which is why he struggles higher up. However, a solid mix of HA, SFs, hard feints, and chained zones along with even neutral zones can be very valueable tools.

Raider's dodge attack is kind of quick and is really his only major defensive move. Everything else is to the discretion of the player taking risks with parries, as he doesn't have Crushing Counters or superior blocks like other vangaurds, hybrids, or heavies.

Forward dodge GB is excellent for closing the distance. Some players don't see it coming if you're off-screen to them in a group fight. Forward-dodge storming tap can also be used to catch a rolls if timed correctly.

Raider is one of those characters that can crush skulls at lower levels but is also the type of character that can be swatted and dealt with rather easily against experienced and knowledgeable opponents. In order to be as effective as possible with Raider at the highest level, you must read your opponents quickly and you must get fancy with your mixups. If you can scare your opponent simply by paying attention and playing a solid defense, it can have a psychological affect on them and your mixups may force more reactions.

Stampede charge has poor tracking and is easily interuptable. Use it to isolate opponents or set up a gank. If you know your opponent gets scared of a big dude charging at them while they're OOS, use it as a 50/50 GB/Stampede charge mixup.

Before Raider was reworked, Raider was possibly the worst duelist is the game. He was, however, a solid pick for dominion. Stampede charge having lost its super armor was a healthy change. With the introduction of HA, more chains, and SFs, Raider could now live up to his name as being Legendary. In the right hands, Raider can devastate a whole group.

I hope by making this about what Raider CAN do as opposed to what YOU should do to counter Raider, this might make it easier for you to better-predict the playstyle and behavior of typical Raiders out there.

Cheers!

The Raiders I struggle with are only encountered in duels. They typically back walk light into HA heavies that they let fly. They will continue this until you parry them and then they begin soft feinting things while also letting heavies occassionally fly. Zero zones are being used at my level because they just aren't worth it. Too easy to shut down.

They just HA spam and it almost seems like they can soft feint on red? Similar to Hito "heby on red" or LB shove on red. Not sure but its really only a problem because Raider's HA starts so early on his chained heavies.

Raiders are nothing special in 4's anymore, just duels with back walk light to HA/soft feinted heavies. That's literally it and IT WORKS.

[Knight_Raime]

The Raiders I struggle with are only encountered in duels. They typically back walk light into HA heavies that they let fly. They will continue this until you parry them and then they begin soft feinting things while also letting heavies occassionally fly. Zero zones are being used at my level because they just aren't worth it. Too easy to shut down.

They just HA spam and it almost seems like they can soft feint on red? Similar to Hito "heby on red" or LB shove on red. Not sure but its really only a problem because Raider's HA starts so early on his chained heavies.

Raiders are nothing special in 4's anymore, just duels with back walk light to HA/soft feinted heavies. That's literally it and IT WORKS.

It's worth noting that if a raider is back lighting into heavy you are more than capable of lighting into it and still blocking the heavy if they commit to it. The light should also beat a feint or soft feint into Gb. Unsure about soft feint to tap. But you can probably just do a top light attack so if the window to block is tight you don't need to worry about the 100ms guard switch to block top.

[MCBooma16]

The Raiders I struggle with are only encountered in duels. They typically back walk light into HA heavies that they let fly. They will continue this until you parry them and then they begin soft feinting things while also letting heavies occassionally fly. Zero zones are being used at my level because they just aren't worth it. Too easy to shut down.

They just HA spam and it almost seems like they can soft feint on red? Similar to Hito "heby on red" or LB shove on red. Not sure but its really only a problem because Raider's HA starts so early on his chained heavies.

Raiders are nothing special in 4's anymore, just duels with back walk light to HA/soft feinted heavies. That's literally it and IT WORKS.

Then it looks like you just have to fight a lot of Raiders to really be good at fighting them. If you're still getting smacked with HA heavies you need to understand that you can't trade with Raider unless you're another Raider or a Berserker. When I find another Raider trying to get to his HA I'll give them a false sense of security by making them think I'm gonna try to interupt them, then you just parry their heavies. Once they start throwing more storming taps, you can try keeping guard up top and reacting to any side attack.

Using his storming tap sf to correct from having fallen for a parry mixup is a valid option that tends to catch a lot of people off guard. PK, Shaman, and Raider are flexible in this way since they all have sf lights from heavies, as well as sf GBs. If I fall for a parry from the side and the opponent for some reason doesn't GB me, I'll sf to storming tap and keep my offense going. Don't be too predictable with it, though.

For your issue, if you have Raiders simply trying to get into their HA heavies, don't try to interupt before they can get to their HA, because you won't. Raider's backstep lights and heavies cover a lot of ground and are really good tools that help Raider actually get to HA attacks. If you play a character with CCs, this is very troublesome for Raiders until they catch on that you're attempting them. You can be more gutsy with Shaolin since you can top light, enter Qi stance, and attempt a CC any followup heavies.


This is all pretty much dependent on what character you play. A lot of characters have tools that can help counter typical Raiders like this. What character[s] are you playing?

[TrondurIGotu]

Its funny you post this because I think Raider is really weak. I tend to get parried out the wazoo at higher levels