Warden Zone Attack Stamina Cost Is Too High | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

I guess you misunderstood what I said. I meant a viable tool against ballarina dancers. His zone is not viable otherwise against those specific characters. I will ignore your last statement because you missed what I said and need to learn the difference between "defeating" and "shutting down". I could defeat them before the zone became undodgable, just wasn't a fun time. I had to GB them early and it was simply an annoyance as the GB wouldn't work each time (if I threw it in late). The undodgable zone works all the time and they can counter it by soft feinting into crushing counter (Tiandi) or hard feinting and parrying by baiting it out. It's totally balanced with the undodgable property against those heroes, but having them dance around me without being able to fight back calls for an undodgable attack necessity.

I still stand by my statement. If Warmonger has an undodgable attack, Warden deserves one as well as they're both Vanguards from the same faction with extremely similar style and at least Warden's won't be feintable like hers.

By that logic than every hero deserves to have an undodgable simply because dodge attacks exist.

Warmonger and Warden play nothing alike. And hers while being undodgable and feintable can't really be used on reaction to punish things due to input timing. However Wardens dash heavy absolutely can.

[Sanguinius-IX-]

If you're interested on the Reddit platform in the sub of "r/CompetitiveForHonor", I made a post where I list some of its problems and bugs that the new rework didn't fix.

The title is called :
The developers released the Warden rework too early, there are still problems and bugs in its kit and I'm afraid they will never be fixed.

I'll leave you the link to the Post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...en_rework_too/

One of the bugs has been around for quite some time before the introduction of Valiant Breakthrough.

[MrBdur]

By that logic than every hero deserves to have an undodgable simply because dodge attacks exist.

Warmonger and Warden play nothing alike. And hers while being undodgable and feintable can't really be used on reaction to punish things due to input timing. However Wardens dash heavy absolutely can.

I 100% agree with these statements.

If you can't deal with "ballerina dancers" then that's your own personal issue as they aren't that difficult to deal with.

[Justicator]

I guess you misunderstood what I said. I meant a viable tool against ballarina dancers. His zone is not viable otherwise against those specific characters. I will ignore your last statement because you missed what I said and need to learn the difference between "defeating" and "shutting down". I could defeat them before the zone became undodgable, just wasn't a fun time. I had to GB them early and it was simply an annoyance as the GB wouldn't work each time (if I threw it in late). The undodgable zone works all the time and they can counter it by soft feinting into crushing counter (Tiandi) or hard feinting and parrying by baiting it out. It's totally balanced with the undodgable property against those heroes, but having them dance around me without being able to fight back calls for an undodgable attack necessity.

I still stand by my statement. If Warmonger has an undodgable attack, Warden deserves one as well as they're both Vanguards from the same faction with extremely similar style and at least Warden's won't be feintable like hers.

Have to agree on this. Having no dodge attack and no undodgeable attack feels so bad. Warden needs an undodgeable attack, be it valiant breakthrough or the zone...

[Lord.Warden.]

By that logic than every hero deserves to have an undodgable simply because dodge attacks exist.

Warmonger and Warden play nothing alike. And hers while being undodgable and feintable can't really be used on reaction to punish things due to input timing. However Wardens dash heavy absolutely can.

I'm talking about heroes of the same class (Vanguards). It's either Hyper armor or undodgable, Warden has neither of those on his attacks until now on the zone. I just want to keep it consistent and give it the blue color so it's visible to everyone fighting against him that the attack is an undodgable.

[MrBdur]

Have to agree on this. Having no dodge attack and no undodgeable attack feels so bad. Warden needs an undodgeable attack, be it valiant breakthrough or the zone...

While I disagree with Lord Warden (perhaps it's just the presentation), I will say that having neither of these things is a bit lame.

Perhaps they could just give Warden dodge lights that are undodgeable like tiandi or orochi but have them be the missing sword attacks people want (quick, forward thrust and quick, side moving slashes).

Make it so the dodge attacks can chain into finishers and can also be chained into from openers. (Kind of like Zhanhu, minus being able to chain to zone).

The dodge attacks being blade attacks, also chain to SB.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I'm talking about heroes of the same class (Vanguards). It's either Hyper armor or undodgable, Warden has neither of those on his attacks until now on the zone. I just want to keep it consistent and give it the blue color so it's visible to everyone fighting against him that the attack is an undodgable.

Raider neither has an undodgeable or a bash. Kensei has no undodgeable either. Tiandi has no unblockables. Warmonger's undodgeable and unblockable are very slow, and her hyperarmor comes out late. Neither other Vanguards have superior block on any normal lights. Neither deals 15 damage with a normal side light. If you want to keep consistent, let's nerf Warden.

[Justicator]

While I disagree with Lord Warden (perhaps it's just the presentation), I will say that having neither of these things is a bit lame.

Perhaps they could just give Warden dodge lights that are undodgeable like tiandi or orochi but have them be the missing sword attacks people want (quick, forward thrust and quick, side moving slashes).

Make it so the dodge attacks can chain into finishers and can also be chained into from openers. (Kind of like Zhanhu, minus being able to chain to zone).

The dodge attacks being blade attacks, also chain to SB.

+1 from me on this as well

[Justicator]

Raider neither has an undodgeable or a bash. Kensei has no undodgeable either. Tiandi has no unblockables. Warmonger's undodgeable and unblockable are very slow, and her hyperarmor comes out late.

But raider kinda has a dodge attack, dodge into storm tap? Mechanically it is not the same; gameplay wise it is like a dodge attack. Kensei has a dodge attack and reliable hyper armour. Tiandi has undodgeable attacks, dodge attacks that are cancer if you yourself have no undodgeable attacks and that one attack that has hyper armour and can really mess you up. Warmonger, as you said, has all of these. They may be slow, but they are an option that the opponent must take into consideration.

Neither other Vanguards have superior block on any normal lights.

Can tiandi not crshing counter with his side lights (that are also undodgeable), making him the only hero able to attack with an attack that is at the same time undodgeable and unblockable?

Neither deals 15 damage with a normal side light

True, but warden's limited kit (especially in the sword attacks department) also makes him the most easily paryable of the bunch.

If you want to keep consistent, let's nerf Warden.

Or why not buff every other hero and rebalance them properly? Completing the rework of warden as it is obviously a missed opportunity still and then continuing on to raider, if we are solely speaking of vanguards. The best thing about the next year for me personally, even if I almost exclusively play warden, is the fact that so many other heroes will be having reworks in the Testing Grounds. Don't you understand; the more heroes are viable, the more people can play what they like and this, at the same time, means that there will be more people playing FH. Reworking heroes is a win-win, for both people that play those heroes and those that do not.

On these forums, I mostly advocate about warden changes as that is the hero I mainly play and do not consider myself competent enough to talk about rebalancing of other heroes (unless we are talking about blatantly broken stuff like warmonger's feats for instance). The fact that I do not talk about other heroes does not mean that I do not want them reworked and buffed as well; on the contrary. I do not want warden to be easy mode, but fair. This is why I strongly believe that his back dodge into sb and thick blood HAD to go. But this is also the reason why I hate the, at least IMHO, unfair inconsistencies with warden and some of the other vanguards and especially newer heroes.

This post is not an attack on you, Goat_of_Vermund, as I value your opinion; it is simply my own opinions, shared by some other people here as well...

[Goat_of_Vermund]

But raider kinda has a dodge attack, dodge into storm tap? Mechanically it is not the same; gameplay wise it is like a dodge attack. Kensei has a dodge attack and reliable hyper armour. Tiandi has undodgeable attacks, dodge attacks that are cancer if you yourself have no undodgeable attacks and that one attack that has hyper armour and can really mess you up. Warmonger, as you said, has all of these. They may be slow, but they are an option that the opponent must take into consideration.


Can tiandi not crshing counter with his side lights (that are also undodgeable), making him the only hero able to attack with an attack that is at the same time undodgeable and unblockable?


True, but warden's limited kit (especially in the sword attacks department) also makes him the most easily paryable of the bunch.


Or why not buff every other hero and rebalance them properly? Completing the rework of warden as it is obviously a missed opportunity still and then continuing on to raider, if we are solely speaking of vanguards. The best thing about the next year for me personally, even if I almost exclusively play warden, is the fact that so many other heroes will be having reworks in the Testing Grounds. Don't you understand; the more heroes are viable, the more people can play what they like and this, at the same time, means that there will be more people playing FH. Reworking heroes is a win-win, for both people that play those heroes and those that do not.

On these forums, I mostly advocate about warden changes as that is the hero I mainly play and do not consider myself competent enough to talk about rebalancing of other heroes (unless we are talking about blatantly broken stuff like warmonger's feats for instance). The fact that I do not talk about other heroes does not mean that I do not want them reworked and buffed as well; on the contrary. I do not want warden to be easy mode, but fair. This is why I strongly believe that his back dodge into sb and thick blood HAD to go. But this is also the reason why I hate the, at least IMHO, unfair inconsistencies with warden and some of the other vanguards and especially newer heroes.

This post is not an attack on you, Goat_of_Vermund, as I value your opinion; it is simply my own opinions, shared by some other people here as well...

I said nothing about dodge attacks. Raider has a dodge attack, but not an undodgable attack, it would totally miss a Tiandi during Dragon Dodge. No Vanguard has a neutral undodgable attack (the only hero who has undodgable zone from neutral is Warlord, and his zone is not 500ms, only 600ms).


I don't think there is anything on Warden right now that needs a nerf. I just told the guy how biased he is. He is always whining about the hero as much as it was the worst hero in the game, and his reasoning behind undodgable zone is stupid.