1. #1

    What is your worst "motion detection" song

    I am trying to end all JD Unlimited song with a "megastar" rate, and fun facts: it's not the extreme songs that is the worst to achieve.

    So I decided to open a thread for people to talk about their nightmares about some motion detections.

    I'm a Switch player, but I am sure there is problems on PS5 / Xbox motion detections too.

    My current nightmare : Boys (Summetime Love) - The Lemon cube.
     1 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  2. #2
    It is indeed frustrating when you hit a great score on an Extreme, and then turn around get X'd and OK'd to death on a non-extreme. I find that most of the extremes are pretty reasonably scored once you learn to do all aspects of the dance pretty closely to what the coach does, though I feel camera sensing of Xbox Kinect or PS4 Camera seem to better detect and reward players for pulling off the full-body choreography well on the extremes (at least, in years past; perhaps Switch, PS4 Move, and phone game play is starting to score more reasonably on the extremes this year; I haven't tried remote or phone gameplay on an extreme yet for JD 2021, so I don't know).

    I came close to hitting megastars on every Unlimited dance with Xbox Kinect over the summer, but ran out of time when JD 2021 was released, so I still have a few songs left. What's interesting is that a dance that is really frustrating on one platform or mode of game play is often pretty easy on a different platform or mode of game play.

    Moskau is the one dance that, for me, is really difficult no matter which console or mode of game play I try. I don't like this dance with Kinect, a phone, Switch, PS4 camera, or PS4 move. What's really interesting is that the moves that give me trouble on Kinect are easy to score perfects on with a remote or phone, and the moves that giver me trouble with a remote or phone are easy to score perfects on with Kinect or the PS4 camera. I need to practice this dance more and study it more to try to understand what I might be doing wrong.

    Sometimes there are tricky moves that have funky workarounds. For example, She's Got Me Dancing has a couple of moves that I found were really difficult to score better than X or OK on using Kinect. I saw a video of SmachKlein doing this dance, who found an interesting way to pull off the move that really gives me trouble. When I try to copy the coach on this move, I can't do it, but SmachKlein foundd a way to hit perfects on this move by doing something totally different than what the coach does. When I tried this same dance on the PS4 Camera, it seemed very easy by comparison. Though on most other dances, I find it easier to hit better scores with Xbox Kinect.

    However, in my experience, most of the time when the game puts up an X or OK, at least with Kinect I'm eventually able to figure out what I'm doing wrong and find a way to try to mimic the coach and hit a better score. Sometimes, I finally see that I had been making a mistake. Occasionally, if I exaggerate a certain part of the motion, this seems to make a feature clear enough for the game to detect it. (Rarely, the game looks for subtlety, seeming to want me to not exaggerate a motion.) Since Kinect is highly visual, I often find that my mistakes are with my technique, but occasionally I discover that it was a problem with timing or speeds or speed changes (or occasionally, synching the motion of two different body parts, like one leg and the opposite arm).

    With Xbox Kinect, I found the scoring to be rather frustrating on Aquarius, Applause, She's Got Me Dancing, Moskau, and Walk Like an Egyptian (even though I felt like I was really paying attention to detail). There are several other songs where the scoring had seemed rather frustrating the first several times I did the dance, but I was finally able to figure out what I was doing wrong or at least what the Kinect sensor seemed to be looking for on many of the moves. Striving to hit megastars on every dance in the Unlimited catalog is a great way to improve overall (from the experience gained every time we learn a different way to improve the score of a certain kind of move).
    Share this post

  3. #3
    I agree a lot with what you said.
    Over time I have learned a lot from the game :
    - if you're overdoing it (too fast, abruptly) you'll got an X or OK
    - if you only watch the move icon and not the coach, you can fail
    - if you over extend the move, you fail
    - (and a lot other reasons to fail..I could open a thread "100 reasons to fail your move on JD")

    And of all that have some benefits (fun fact, my shoulder was always tense, and to do smooth move I finally got to relax them).

    "She got me dancing" is a hardcore one on Switch too (I have done it nearly 10 times around 11900 before getting 12k+), the moves make sens, but the frame is really really tight.
    "99 Luftbaloon" was a nightmare too. I love the song, the choreography is great but : the frame is tight and, the gold move was the worst (I have restart the song several times just to try various move to match the gold).

    On the other hand "Omi - cheerleader" was a nightmare (a long time ago I spend so much time to reach 10k then 11k), but yesterday at the second try I got the 12k+.
    I had to admit "okay, sometimes the problem is not the motion detection but just the dancer".

    My next nightmare is "Katy perry - Birthday" (I struggled just to reach 11k.. I can't stand that song anymore, I play without the sound on this one).
    (And "Don't worry be Happy"... this song.. I would love the possibility to switch it to "Extrem" so I don't see anymore "Easy" and I am unable to reach 12k).

    "Uptown funk" is really tricky on some parts too.
    "DNCE - Cake by the ocean" is a bit hardcore, I have the feeling I do the same move each times but the game can say "Perfect" or "Okay".. it's so frustrating (I love the song, so it's compensated)

    And I agree, striving to get Megastar on all of them is awesome to improve (best exemple: Cheerleader was a nightmare, now I don't understand where it seems so impossible).
    It tooks me a lot of songs to understand all the small variations in the move asked by the game (on switch). I always wondering if casual players don't care and enjoy the choreography or ragequit some songs (an other answer could be I'm just bad and the other ones don't have problems with the songs I'm stuck with ).

    Over time the motion detection is getting far better on switch (or the game just accept anything. I don't have try to do wrong moves to see if the game match a perfect on it).
    But the motion detection on game before JD2017/2018 can be really really tricky some times (nearly each time I don't understand a song moves, it's on a JD2015/2016 song).

    I am near to buy a XBOX with a Kinect to test if the most horrible songs on Switch are easy on other plateforms.

    I think one day I'll share a list of "worst difficult motion detection songs on switch".
    Share this post

  4. #4
    I was really fighting with She's Got Me Dancing on Kinect. I started it once on my phone just for comparison, but quickly gave that up. Then out of curiosity, I tried it with the PS4 camera, which usually is harder for me on the scoring than Kinect, but surprisingly I scored much, much higher on this dance with the PS4 camera. Now that I've seen SmachKlein do it on Kinect, I could probably do this on Xbox now.

    I was having trouble with 99 Luftballoons with Kinect... until I switched coaches. I found that this dance was much easier on Kinect with one coach than the other. I don't believe I've tried this dance with a remote or phone.

    In 2017, when I was going through the Unlimited catalog, I remember having a little trouble with Cheerleader, but when I tried it this summer, it was much easier on Kinect than I had remembered. It makes sense though, as I've learned a great deal about how Kinect works and different things that the game may be looking for since 2017.

    I started out with 2015, and back then on Wii U Birthday was really challenging for me, and from the WDF it would seem it was hard for many remote players. I had finally learned how to hit 11,000 (which back in 2015 using a Wii U remote, I had felt was a pretty high score; but these days, it seems like 13k is the new gold standard). After switching to Kinect, I found this dance to be much easier (provided that you can get your whole body to follow the coach well). I also didn't see this dance right back in 2015. Now I have much more experience watching coaches and understanding better how to do the moves that I see. I know I'm doing this dance right now, so that may have been part of my problem back in 2015.

    A lot of the dances from 2015 and earlier, I feel like they were designed so that it wouldn't be too easy to hit 5 stars on every dance. Now they have Superstars and Megastars, and I think they have softened up the scoring to make it reasonable to hit 12k, and now 13k seems to be far more accessible to many dancers on many songs.

    Don't Worry Be Happy also seems easier with Kinect, though I had eventually learned to do this dance pretty well with a Wii U remote. I had to do that dance more gently than my intuition suggested back then, when using a remote, and I learned to do that dance much smoother over time.

    In 2017, I had used Wii U extensively halfway through the season, and then discovered Xbox Kinect. I felt like this dance gave a slight edge to remote/phone players, though I eventually learned many of the tricks that make this dance difficult to score on with Kinect.

    Personally, I had a lot of troubles when I first switched from Wii U to Xbox Kinect. I had trained myself to focus too much on my right hand, so I had trouble adjusting my mindset to focus on the whole body better. Plus, I didn't realize that the game could pick up so many little details, and it took me a long time to realize this and to be more detail-oriented. When I first made the switch, there were about 5 dances from 2017 that were suddenly much easier on Kinect, such as Lean On, and there were several dances where I was really struggling with Kinect. But I kept at it and eventually got better with Kinect on most of the dances, though for me it took months of hard work to make the transition. If I had been dancing better with my whole body and paying attention to detail back when I was using Wii U (for one, I may have scored better even with Wii U), it probably would have facilitated my transition to Kinect.

    Happy dancing.
    Share this post

  5. #5
    Hi UbiCM,

    are the game dev knows that the motion detection of "Katty Perry" - Birthday" is a Nightmare on switch ? (It's a top 3 worst motion detection, and maybe the top 1).

    Could the motion detection be enhanced on this one ? (Or a new category be created like "Nightmare" because the frustration is so high).
    At this point, my new goal is to hack the moves instead of doing them (by doing this, the game have no sense anymore, but the frustration will be gone).

    Maybe it's a developer's private joke when they create new songs : "okay the motion detection have problem, but it's not Birthday".

    It would be so great to fix this one.
    Much love <3
    Share this post

  6. #6
    Volar Uptown Funk(Solo)
    Share this post

  7. #7
    sexy and i know it.
    Share this post

  8. #8

    Everything wrong on "Lizzo - Juice by Flying steps academy" (on switch)

    Hello Ubisoft,

    first of all, I appreciate having alternative moves and having guests is really great.
    But the problem is all of this is wasted on switch because of the motion detection on switch (all my comments below are based upon the switch version, I don't know if xbox/ps versions have the same problem).

    Usually since JD2020, the motion detection is not really a problem.
    Older JD songs could have a lot of problems, but I put that on:
    - "we had to learn how to use the switch controller at his best"
    - "migrate JD songs from wii to switch, the motion controller isn't working the same, so convert all of them to switch controller takes time"

    So, even if few JD songs motion detection makes me cry, I say to myself those two arguments, and hope one day they will be corrected (or I will have find the right moves hacks* to bring them to 7 stars and never play them again.. (Like Birthday by katy perry... tears are coming just by thinking of it.. but it's not the subject right now).

    All this preambule to bring us to Lizzo - Juice - the version by Flying steps academy, who don't fit in my two arguments: "it's an old song or we had to learn how to use the switch controller at his best".

    The switch motion detection on this song is a real nightmare.
    I think it's almost impossible to reach 7 stars just by dancing on it without focusing on the score (if someone succeed that, congratulation you have all my admiration).
    So, to reach 7 stars I began to hack* the moves. And even with this technique, it's a Nightmare (after an hour I stopped at 11990... I am so sad).

    I have several guess on why the motion detection is a Nightmare:
    - this song hasn't been done on a green screen, so extract the moves couldn't be done easily (or even couldn't be done at all)
    - the QA has not been done on switch, or it was a yellow flag and due to release date, a decision has been made to release it like this
    - an automatic conversion as been done from other detection file (as xbox)

    Whatever the reason is, please:
    - if you didn't knew this song motion detection is really bad on switch, an improvement of the QA process for this kind of song should be done (as I said, I have very few complaints about JD2020 / JD2021 motion detection, it's just really this one, and I am sure there is a logic explaination behind it).
    - if you knew this but had to release it due to annouced release date, please, don't hesitate to delay the release date to bring corrections and offer a wonderful experience to players (of course they could be sad when you annouce the delay, but in the end they'll be more happy if everything in the song is right).

    To conclude, even if this "bad feedback" I want you to know I really appreciate what you're doing, the experiences you bring to us and I look forward for every new ones you will provide.

    I wish you a nice day

    Hack the moves
    When I talk about "hacking the moves", it's not a computer hack of course, but doing other moves that will be detected as the right ones.
    I don't like playing like this, but sometimes when you try to reach 7 stars on some songs, you have no other choice.
    Share this post

  9. #9
    With Xbox Kinect, I found that the scoring was relatively easy for Juice VIP. Doing the moves took a little practice and skill, but once I was able to do the moves right, Kinect was able to see this and reward it.

    It's often the case that when a dance is particularly difficult to score on with remote dancing, it is very easy with Kinect, and when a dance is very difficult to score on with Kinect, it is very easy with a remote. This is one feature that sometimes makes cross-network play very frustrating (but it's also an equalizer in the sense that a player who has a lead in a tournament on the WDF can easily lose it to a player on a different platform depending on the song selection).

    Birthday is another example of a dance that's much easier to do with Kinect. I found this dance to be difficult years ago when I was using Wii U, but now that I finally know this dance, I feel like a big part of my problem back then had been that I was seeing the moves incorrectly. I remember one person using Wii U who consistently put up 12k on Birthday on the dance floor, though most of the good players I knew were hitting about 11k. With Kinect, 13k is fairly reasonable on Birthday (and on Juice VIP).

    Whether I'm using Kinect like I do now, or whether I was using a remote like I used to with Wii U or which I tried a few times with Switch, either way, there are always dances that are difficult to score on, and when this happens, I experiment with different ways of doing the troublesome moves, trying to find a way to hit perfects. It is frustrating when you try to do a move correctly and take X or OK, then when you test out other ways of doing the move, you find a way that clearly seems to be "wrong" that consistently gives you perfects. When using Wii U, I discovered a trick to hitting the gold moves for 4x4 that seemed ridiculous (I got the remote into position way ahead of time and held it there), but for whatever reason it worked consistently.

    Sometimes, I learn that a move that didn't seem to be working right really had been working right, but that I had been making a mistake, and I just hadn't realized at the time what the mistake had been. Sometimes, a seemingly "crazy move" works to hit perfect because it is somehow correcting for a mistake that I had been making. For example, there was one dance driving me crazy years ago, and testing out different things, one time I jumped way forward during the move and hit perfect. Then I realized that the coach actually was going a little forward during the move, and that forward motion was apparently what the game had been looking for. Other times, I discovered that my hands had been backwards, I had been turning a part of my body (or walking in a circle) the wrong way, or making smaller/larger arcs with my arm helped to correct my timing or speed-matching. I can probably list over 100 different kinds of examples of mistakes that I had been making and found corrections for, from technique to synchronization. The game seems to use. a wide variety of criteria. I have learned a lot about dancing from exploring these different kinds of issues.

    There was one dance in 2020 where I found that if I raised my left arm far left, I hit perfect on a troublesome move every time. Months later, I saw a YouTube video of a Kinect player doing this dance without raising his arm way out to the left. So I saw that it was possible to do the move correctly and score a perfect. I was making a little mistake when I was raising my arm upward, and for whatever reason, when I raised it way out to the left, it was correcting that little mistake.

    Each year, I wish they would release a few videos showing a few of the hardest dances to score on from the previous year, showing video clips of people making the common mistakes and video clips of players doing the same moves correctly, so I would think to myself, "Oh, the moves were scored correctly after all. I just didn't realize what mistake I had been making." Then I would feel much more confident that the game works correctly. (Of course, they can't use the same video clips for remote dancing as for Kinect dancing, since the moves aren't scored the same way and since the harder remote dances are often easy on Kinect, and vice-versa. They would need at least two different sets of video clips, one for remote/phone, another for Kinect.)
    Share this post

  10. #10
    I agree with you, and to add a few background information to what I said:
    - on JD Unlimited I have 38 songs remaining as 6 stars (the others are 7 stars)
    - all songs I struggle on, I try a lot of different moves.
    - I have learn to distinguish what the bottom right symbol give and what the dancer do
    - I know the scale of movement on various song (small / medium / large moves to perfect)
    - I master the "relax move" instead of the "tense move"

    So with all of this, I know if:
    - I don't reach 7 stars because I don't master the song (on some extrem songs, there can be a lot of details that prevent to reach 7 stars easily, and I know that until I master those details, it's not the game that have a problem but me)
    - I after a lot of different tries, it's not me anymore but the motion detection.

    As I said at the beginning, I do a post on this song because I hadn't this problem on JD2020/21, but this is an exception.

    And if the answer from Ubisoft is "We had done a lot of QA on this song on switch, and no relevant problem had been found", maybe the problem is I don't dance well enough (and it's a possibility!), and in this case I give my truly apologize and will give my best to improve and understand my mismovements
    Share this post