Y5S1 Warrior's Den | Forums

[MrBdur]

I remember. I'm saying it would be just as bad if you removed any of his HA. His unblockables are bolstered by the fact that he can feint into HA moves. Removing HA from either his lights or heavies makes that scenario a dead one because you'd be able to stuff it half the time.


Ah yes, let's axe his offense because he's attemtping to be offensive. Zerks chains are incredibly limited as is. His non heavy finishers are severely reactable even on console since they slowed them down from the ccu. Like I don't claim to be a great zerk. But when I can sit there and actually have over half of my heavies parried because I committed to them that really says something.

I severely urge you to actually learn his kit. And then go learn how much stamina it costs him to do actually land attacks against people who can decently react. And then tell me that it's a problem that he can trade. Because giving up nearly half of my stamina bar just to consistently land two attacks doesn't feel great.

I mean, I did say they need to test what compensation to give him for losing HA somewhere in the kit, whether its all lights or if feints end the chain.

I get it though. You're a zerk player and you don't wanna give up any advantage you get with him.

You speak to me like you think I've never played Zerk. Listen to me. I have at LEAST 1 rep on every hero. I have a few on zerk. I know his kit. Thanks for that condescending comment though lol.

[MrBdur]

Like, you already know this, but I guess I'll say it again.

I'm rep 300+. I have experience with the entire roster. I am also a high diamond, so no where close to being bad at the game. I play against the best, and the best zerks out there are absolute monsters.

Just because YOU can't land zerks best stuff or mix up well enough that the opponent can't possibly read you, doesn't mean the hero is weak or even balanced. It speaks more about your personal skill level than it does about the hero.

[Knight_Raime]

I mean, I did say they need to test what compensation to give him for losing HA somewhere in the kit, whether its all lights or if feints end the chain.

I get it though. You're a zerk player and you don't wanna give up any advantage you get with him.

You speak to me like you think I've never played Zerk. Listen to me. I have at LEAST 1 rep on every hero. I have a few on zerk. I know his kit. Thanks for that condescending comment though lol.

Funny how you have to basically main shame me just because I disagree with your proposal. Also not once did I accuse you of being bad. I asked you to recheck him out. Even the top players of the game will refresh themselves on a hero if they actually feel like giving suggestions about the kit.

Like, you already know this, but I guess I'll say it again.

I'm rep 300+. I have experience with the entire roster. I am also a high diamond, so no where close to being bad at the game. I play against the best, and the best zerks out there are absolute monsters.

Just because YOU can't land zerks best stuff or mix up well enough that the opponent can't possibly read you, doesn't mean the hero is weak or even balanced. It speaks more about your personal skill level than it does about the hero.

"the best zerks out there" I see. So if I got a quote of barrak saying zerk is kinda weak right now my argument would trump yours? You're the one taking this personally for no reason.

The only and I literally mean only reason I suggested you take a refresher on the hero is because it's a very easy mistake for anyone myself included to not account for stamina costs when looking at trades. There was a very lovely post on the comp reddit awhile back showing how trading is often not in his favor and it broke down damage and health and stamina costs for common scenarios. That personally showed me zerk differently.

I don't doubt your capabilities. Nor you having experience. I simply think that you might be missing some key information. I don't see how else you could come to the conclusion that his main goal in his kit which is to mix up with feints should immediately end his offense.

[MrBdur]

Funny how you have to basically main shame me just because I disagree with your proposal. Also not once did I accuse you of being bad. I asked you to recheck him out. Even the top players of the game will refresh themselves on a hero if they actually feel like giving suggestions about the kit.



"the best zerks out there" I see. So if I got a quote of barrak saying zerk is kinda weak right now my argument would trump yours? You're the one taking this personally for no reason.

The only and I literally mean only reason I suggested you take a refresher on the hero is because it's a very easy mistake for anyone myself included to not account for stamina costs when looking at trades. There was a very lovely post on the comp reddit awhile back showing how trading is often not in his favor and it broke down damage and health and stamina costs for common scenarios. That personally showed me zerk differently.

I don't doubt your capabilities. Nor you having experience. I simply think that you might be missing some key information. I don't see how else you could come to the conclusion that his main goal in his kit which is to mix up with feints should immediately end his offense.

Oh I wasn't trying to main shame, just saying I understand not wanting your hero to lose his advantage, or his strength if you will. The problem is that zerks advantages are cancerous, like Warden's back dodge shoulder bash. They didnt just remove it from Warden and say done. They added other things to compensate so that the hero is just as good as before, or maybe even better, while simultaneously eliminating the cancerous parts of the kit.

And what makes you think I'm taking this personally? I was just explaining that I'm a very experienced player and I know zerks kit so I don't need to "learn his kit" as you so condescendingly said I should go do. I already know his kit.

Lol

Side note. Barrak? Is that a champ of Clutchmeisters colosseum? (Sp?)

Never seen him. I watch Nova King and Havok mostly. Seen some Daddy Law and a bit of Clutchmeister as well.

[MrBdur]

The fact of the matter is that zerk needs to be addressed and could use some changes, and apparently the devs agree.

We all know the devs only put heroes in the TG when a majority of players have an issue with something, including comp players. If all comp players agreed that zerk is weak, then why is he being addressed? I promise they arent about to straight buff zerk. They are likely going to be looking at exactly what I said the 2 possible issues could be.

HA on lights in general (but then all HA lights should go, including on my boy Kensei) or feints continuing the chain. Zerk is the only hero in game who gets to continue a chain from a hard feint. Every other hard feint in the game ends the chain.

Again, if they remove something from zerks kit, then he needs to be compensated with something less cancerous and still viable. I'm not suggesting ruining him like they did with Hitokiri. That's just silly. I will always advocate for the game to be "fair".

[Knight_Raime]

Oh I wasn't trying to main shame, just saying I understand not wanting your hero to lose his advantage, or his strength if you will. The problem is that zerks advantages are cancerous, like Warden's back dodge shoulder bash. They didnt just remove it from Warden and say done. They added other things to compensate so that the hero is just as good as before, or maybe even better, while simultaneously eliminating the cancerous parts of the kit.

And what makes you think I'm taking this personally? I was just explaining that I'm a very experienced player and I know zerks kit so I don't need to "learn his kit" as you so condescendingly said I should go do. I already know his kit.

Lol

Side note. Barrak? Is that a champ of Clutchmeisters colosseum? (Sp?)

Never seen him. I watch Nova King and Havok mostly. Seen some Daddy Law and a bit of Clutchmeister as well.

Ive advocated for nerfs for both of my mains of cent and BP in the past. And the removal of Wardens back dash bash forever. Regardless of your intent mentioning who I may or may not play has zero place in the discussion and only serves to undermine my position. You're attacking the person instead of the argument.

The fact that you're choosing to take my suggestion as condescending especially after I've clarified what I meant is what leads me to my assumption on how your taking the debate. You've still not addressed my original point and were off track here so I'm going to simplify this.

You insist that trading is currently a problem on his kit. My counter point is that trading is often not in his favor due to stamina cost, damage, and his available hp pool. You've yet to give a counter point to this.

Wardens back dash bash was a problem because of the safety it gives him. In order to make the comparison between HA on his lights versus back dash bash you'd have to prove that HA on his lights gives him an unfair advantage.

Barrak is widely considered to be the best known zerk and Iirc is currently on clutches nemisis team playing primarily warlord. But really any of the top known players will tell you that berserker isn't a strong hero right now. And pretty much all of them would point to the ccu changes being the cause because they screwed his trading value arguably too hard. (that and it's infinitely forever easier to block in a mix up than it is to dodge.)

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Oh I wasn't trying to main shame, just saying I understand not wanting your hero to lose his advantage, or his strength if you will. The problem is that zerks advantages are cancerous, like Warden's back dodge shoulder bash. They didnt just remove it from Warden and say done. They added other things to compensate so that the hero is just as good as before, or maybe even better, while simultaneously eliminating the cancerous parts of the kit.

And what makes you think I'm taking this personally? I was just explaining that I'm a very experienced player and I know zerks kit so I don't need to "learn his kit" as you so condescendingly said I should go do. I already know his kit.

Lol

Side note. Barrak? Is that a champ of Clutchmeisters colosseum? (Sp?)

Never seen him. I watch Nova King and Havok mostly. Seen some Daddy Law and a bit of Clutchmeister as well.

Barak is probably one of the best players. Matchmaking somehow thought it is a good idea to put me in a duel with him despite the vastly different skill levels we have, and I think I have never felt so outclassed. I watched him playing tournaments and playing in general, he has very deep game knowledge. I think I would accept his opinion over most youtubers'.


That being said, I completely agree with you. Berserker is insanely strong, and the only weaknesses he has are bad optionselect zone, low range, and light dodge attacks. He literally has everything else in his kit. His staminamanagement is over avarage, others pay 21 stamina for heavy into light, while Berserker pays only 18, he can reach his strongest pressure tool for 18 stamina from neutral, even by whiffing, and he can safely keep doing his mixups, while other heroes must be concerned with enemies hitting them out of their mixup if they get a good read. Even his deflect is easily the best for every situation, consistent, higher than avarage punish, no risk of being interrupted nor anything trading with it.

I would totally remove the HA from his 400ms lights without compensation. Removing anything else would require some compensation, but that one is completely justified. If I predict that he will not commit to whatever he is throwing, and that he is not throwing a heavy attack after the feint, I should hit him out.

[MrBdur]

Ive advocated for nerfs for both of my mains of cent and BP in the past. And the removal of Wardens back dash bash forever. Regardless of your intent mentioning who I may or may not play has zero place in the discussion and only serves to undermine my position. You're attacking the person instead of the argument.

The fact that you're choosing to take my suggestion as condescending especially after I've clarified what I meant is what leads me to my assumption on how your taking the debate. You've still not addressed my original point and were off track here so I'm going to simplify this.

You insist that trading is currently a problem on his kit. My counter point is that trading is often not in his favor due to stamina cost, damage, and his available hp pool. You've yet to give a counter point to this.

Wardens back dash bash was a problem because of the safety it gives him. In order to make the comparison between HA on his lights versus back dash bash you'd have to prove that HA on his lights gives him an unfair advantage.

Barrak is widely considered to be the best known zerk and Iirc is currently on clutches nemisis team playing primarily warlord. But really any of the top known players will tell you that berserker isn't a strong hero right now. And pretty much all of them would point to the ccu changes being the cause because they screwed his trading value arguably too hard. (that and it's infinitely forever easier to block in a mix up than it is to dodge.)

I never said trading was a problem in his kit. Where did you see this?

I said being able to activate HA by first hard feinting is kind of dumb and a little cheap I will add.

Trading is great. His heavy HA is just fine, and even his lights would be fine if feinting ended the chain.

Not once did I say trading was an issue in Zerk's kit so you are now quite literally fabricating stories. That would explain why I haven't addressed it. Nice try though.

So, by saying cent and bp are your mains, you're admitting that neither of us ever even mentioned zerk being your main yet you attempted to blame me for main shaming. You are wildly inconsistent.

The problem here is that you are misunderstanding me. That's all. If you could hear my tone while saying this stuff, you'd know I'm just sittin here calm as ever and talking.

Lol

[MrBdur]

Barak is probably one of the best players. Matchmaking somehow thought it is a good idea to put me in a duel with him despite the vastly different skill levels we have, and I think I have never felt so outclassed. I watched him playing tournaments and playing in general, he has very deep game knowledge. I think I would accept his opinion over most youtubers'.


That being said, I completely agree with you. Berserker is insanely strong, and the only weaknesses he has are bad optionselect zone, low range, and light dodge attacks. He literally has everything else in his kit. His staminamanagement is over avarage, others pay 21 stamina for heavy into light, while Berserker pays only 18, he can reach his strongest pressure tool for 18 stamina from neutral, even by whiffing, and he can safely keep doing his mixups, while other heroes must be concerned with enemies hitting them out of their mixup if they get a good read. Even his deflect is easily the best for every situation, consistent, higher than avarage punish, no risk of being interrupted nor anything trading with it.

I would totally remove the HA from his 400ms lights without compensation. Removing anything else would require some compensation, but that one is completely justified. If I predict that he will not commit to whatever he is throwing, and that he is not throwing a heavy attack after the feint, I should hit him out.

It's fine. Haha. I got matched with Xbox's #1 ranked duelist a couple times and we are now xbox friends. I actually hold my own against him sort of. He always beats me but it's never by too much. He's usually critical when he kills me.

But yeah, zerk just has some cancerous stuff, that's all. I never once said "berserker OP" just that his HA could use some tweaking and possibly get some compensation if they decide to remove some of it.

I think Raime is assuming that I'm calling zerk OP or that I struggle with zerk, which neither of those is true. Lolol

[MastlyCJ]

I love year 5 finally thick blood getting removed. Also

rip to my boys

lawbringer and shinobi