[FEEDBACK] Docklands Import/Export system rebalance | Forums

[Iesekeel]

How can you debate that all ways of playing the game are not equal?
If the game allows a player to play in a certain way, and they enjoy playing in that way, then you can not tell them they are doing it wrong.

Because you reduce everything to subjective perception, which is why I used "solipsism" term. Yes, subjective perception is a factor. Someone may enjoy a mod where all you have to do is push one button and city is built automatically by an AI. Someone may enjoy spending hundreds of hours on one campaign. Sure, everyone enjoys what they want. But objectively there is a difference in how much effort is being put in, how much one trains cognition while doing so etc. So it is a common sense that people would judge playstyles differently. Again, people can play however they want, but don't expect me to consider "unlimited resources" development miscalculation to be a valid game strategy equal to others. Sorry, just no.

I can throw that right back at you -
Why should people who enjoy Docklands as it is now be forced to play in your preferred, harder version?

Because it is like if a bug was introduced in, say, Fallout, that made all shots be headshots. And then when audience points out the bug, someone says "No, I really enjoy this bug, don't fix the game to its working default state". As I said before, I don't consider using developer oversight of unlimited resources to be an equal, valid strategy. It is just a bug that massively upsets the balancing of the game for everyone. Unlike Artcic or anything else that is supposedly making game "harder", making resources from air in Docklands is not congruent with game at large. It removes strategy from the strategy game. That's why you can't equate these two cases.

Especially as no-one is forced to make unlimited resources, how hard is that to understand?

No one is forced to do anything in this game. If you find anything hard, you can turn it off. You are not forced to buy Arctic. This is just all sophistry. As long as there is broken way of making resources, competitive multiplayer, as one example is also broken. Optimization is broken. avalyah explained it before.

Look, I am not against adding more, optional, game settings so any player can make Docklands as hard or as easy as they want.
What I am against is nerfing it into the ground to satisfy just the (small) proportion of people that want it to be much harder.
Even adding more settings will cause problems, as that will mean many people having to restart their cities/sandbox from scratch to choose how hard/easy they want Docklands to be.
Ok, many people like restarting, but I would bet there are just as many that dont, and just play a long continous game.
Would you be prepared to start again to make it harder?

Why should I start over because of a bug? I think it should be the other way around. Developers could see that unintentional bug has its supporters, so they could rebalance the game to default state and add an option at start for unlimited resources. As patch is introduced, allow a player who enjoys the unlimited resources to keep it for existing game. Everyone is happy.

All I can really see now is people complaining that they bought some optional DLC that doesnt meet their expectations and want it changed.
Ive said before, they could have waited and seen the communities reaction to Docklands and decided if it was what they wanted, but they didnt.
They just bought it and then found it wasnt what they thought it was going to be.
Buying DLC or any game without waiting is always a bit of a risk so I dont have much sympathy for them Im afraid.

That's kind of callous.

[Brando_0070]

Sure, everyone enjoys what they want. But objectively there is a difference in how much effort is being put in, how much one trains cognition while doing so etc. So it is a common sense that people would judge playstyles differently. Again, people can play however they want, but don't expect me to consider "unlimited resources" development miscalculation to be a valid game strategy equal to others. Sorry, just no.

Yes there is obviosly harder or easier ways to play a game such as this.
It already has many ways built in that will make it harder/easier if you choose to use them. Many of the items or characters are a perfect example where you can already remove whole production chains etc.
I dont judge anyone that wants to play a , mostly, single player game in the way that they enjoy to. It doesnt effect me in the slightest.
Especially when it comes to how much "effort" they have put into it, its just a game.
Its not an exam or a competition where they have cheated you, personally out of anything.

Because it is like if a bug was introduced in....

But its not a bug, so you can not compare there.
Just because you feel it is developer oversight doesnt make it so.
You think they didnt know how far you could abuse Docklands if you choose to?
They just massively underestimated some peoples ability to self regul\ate at the expense of their own enjoyment.

competitive multiplayer...

I doubt this Anno is hardly ever played or portrayed as competitive in any way. And even then both teams would have access to Docklands so would have the exact same tools to play the game.

You are not forced to buy Arctic.

and you were not forced to buy Docklands, so your point is?

Optimization is broken.

Only if you abuse the sytems.

Why should I start over because of a bug?

Its not a bug, many people enjoy it as the intended feature it is.
Apparently they added a way to change settings mid-game that I wasnt aware of.
So, if that is indeed true, then no-one would have to start over but would still be able to alter the Docklands settings to make it as hard or as easy as they like.

This, to me, seems like the best solution for all.

That's kind of callous.

The only problem I have had with the people saying that Docklands should be harder is that they were not saying that it should be added in as optional settings, they just wanted a patch rolled out that would change everyones game to these harder settings without caring about the people that actually like how it is now.

That is callous.

[Misiek_1991]

Totally agree with Iesekeel. This is a BUG. Anno 1800 is really well balanced ECONOMY game. This is the success of Anno - the deep economy. Now we have got the new mechanics which ruined the balance and turned Anno into Flash browser game. Sure I can stop using this, I can even uninstall the game and maybe sell my PC... Same as you - maybe the last SimCity would be a better choice for you? There is no economy, just simple building placement.

[Brando_0070]

Totally agree with Iesekeel. This is a BUG. Anno 1800 is really well balanced ECONOMY game. This is the success of Anno - the deep economy. Now we have got the new mechanics which ruined the balance and turned Anno into Flash browser game. Sure I can stop using this, I can even uninstall the game and maybe sell my PC... Same as you - maybe the last SimCity would be a better choice for you? There is no economy, just simple building placement.

I am not arguing for the game to be made easier or dumbed down for everyone. Where have I said that?

Just having to limit yourself a bit in how you use a feature is not grounds to uninstal or sell your pc, do you over react to everything in your life that way?
Its like the guy who said he deleted all his new world cities, just massive over reaction.
Your deep economy has not been taken away!

They have introduced a new mechanic. some people like the new mechanic, some people dont (who can not control themeselves for some reason)

All I am arguing for is to add the difficulty into optional settings so everyone gets to chose how hard/easy they want it to be.

I dont see how it should matter to you one little bit if someone else wants to play Anno with no economy at all.

[Misiek_1991]

Sure, everyone can play as he wants, but Anno is an economy game. It was nice balanced. And now there is Tobias with his magic ship. He can load billion tons of goods and give you unlimited resources. Is it really so hard to understand it? Of course you can only plant trees in Anno and build some houses, but you have got plenty of mods like "God mode" - go for it. Just respect please, that in Anno economy is the core and Devs should already know that wery well after fail with "2205" Sorry to say, but Docklands turned Anno 1800 into 2205...
It shuold be fixed as soon as possible.
IMO contracts should be balanced, alternative way to let you gain goods you need, but they should be a COST, not a profit. I.e. you need more gold so you can settle new island or trade it with Tobias, but with higher cost. Your profit is that you no need to settle new island (no influence and no building costs) and no need to wait so long to gain X tons of gold (shorter time). Lets say 10 contracts in total, Tobias every 30 minutes/contract and single ship capacity 300 t. (10 ships in total = 3000 capacity /30 mins).

[Brando_0070]

Sure, everyone can play as he wants, but Anno is an economy game. It was nice balanced. And now there is Tobias with his magic ship. He can load billion tons of goods and give you unlimited resources. Is it really so hard to understand it?

I fully understand the concept of the game thanks

Why are you so against people having a choice?

If you could choose to make Docklands as hard as YOU want what would it matter if someone chose to make it easier.
Is it really so hard to understand?

Sounds like you are just being a bit selfish.

[Misiek_1991]

I fully understand the concept of the game thanks

Why are you so against people having a choice?

If you could choose to make Docklands as hard as YOU want what would it matter if someone chose to make it easier.
Is it really so hard to understand?

Sounds like you are just being a bit selfish.

I agree, Docklands DLC is OP.
If you cant play Anno, thats fine, I dont care, you can use mods, cheats, unlimited money, resources, whatever you want. All I need is some settings before I create new game. Just let me reduce power of Docklands and let me have fun of it as well. Thats all.

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[Brando_0070]

.

sorry I missed that post, as I didnt reply to it at the time as you were not saying anything I didnt agree with

I was replying to your later posts where you didnt mention anything about extra settings.

Just to make it really clear - I have no problem with them making it super hard core extreme hard as long as it done through optional settings that people can choose.

[Iesekeel]

Yes there is obviosly harder or easier ways to play a game such as this.
It already has many ways built in that will make it harder/easier if you choose to use them. Many of the items or characters are a perfect example where you can already remove whole production chains etc.
I dont judge anyone that wants to play a , mostly, single player game in the way that they enjoy to. It doesnt effect me in the slightest.
Especially when it comes to how much "effort" they have put into it, its just a game.
Its not an exam or a competition where they have cheated you, personally out of anything.

Item stacking is a complicated thing in the game. Yes, it is unbalanced, but on the other hand it requires effort and patience to do right. Whatever the case, I do have a right to judge different playstyles however I wish. You have that right too. If you choose not to, that's also your right. Does not make me or you morally upright for choosing to do so.

But its not a bug, so you can not compare there.
Just because you feel it is developer oversight doesnt make it so.
You think they didnt know how far you could abuse Docklands if you choose to?

Oh, but it is. It is clearly a misbalanced feature. Like Bright Harvest changes that required rebalancing, Docklands also need a patch. The DLC was supposed to add another strategy to the game competing and complimenting others. Basing this on twitch talks and developer diaries. However its opaque mathematical system makes it 500% better than alternatives, destroying the balance for everyone. Again, it is like any bug in any other regular game. Again, you may enjoy it, but it does not mean that it is not a bug.

They just massively underestimated some peoples ability to self regul\ate at the expense of their own enjoyment.

So you agree that this bug makes at least some people actively not enjoying the game? And that self-regulation is not that fun by itself? And you want to force them to continue anyway? How is that congruent with your previous points about "all players are equal" and "you can't force people into harder settings"? Sounds a bit hypocritical. I would prefer a solution that keeps everyone happy - a message after the patch saying that you can keep original changes if you want.

I doubt this Anno is hardly ever played or portrayed as competitive in any way. And even then both teams would have access to Docklands so would have the exact same tools to play the game.

Yes, competitive games exist in Anno 1800. No, having same tools won't make those games fun because everyone will be forced into same strategy.

and you were not forced to buy Docklands, so your point is?

I was responding to your original point of "no one is forced to things in game" and used "no one is forced to buy Arctic" to demonstrate that this point is meaningless. People are not forced to work. People are not forced to eat. Does not mean that it is alright that involuntary unemployment or starvation are good things. People not being forced to play unbalanced game does not mean that the game should stay unbalanced.

Only if you abuse the sytems.

Maybe the last time I repeat this: forcing optimization-minded players to willfully ignore the most prized optiminzation tool (Docklands in unbalanced condition) is ruining their enjoyment of the game. You may not believe it and tell them to just adapt and self-regulate, but it is true.

The only problem I have had with the people saying that Docklands should be harder is that they were not saying that it should be added in as optional settings, they just wanted a patch rolled out that would change everyones game to these harder settings without caring about the people that actually like how it is now.

That is callous.

First, this is expected reaction when we talk about a bug. Second, I am not a person who made that argument.

Hopefully we can agree that new settings making Docklands easier or harder should be in place.

[Misiek_1991]

One more thing to show you Docklands balance.
You can sell 6900 t of fish for 110 400 $ or you can change it into 300 t of gramophones and sell them for.... 13 202 700 $

110 400$ = 13 202 700$ after using Tobias (12 000% profit)
you can see that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy4e...gendofTotalWar