[SUGGESTION] introduce proper damage values | Forums

[raptor2-40delta]

I'll be one of the first to welcome more realistic damage and ballistics, but I'm not sure if the foundation is there for it yet.
Everything in Breakpoint was designed around the philosophy of gear score and a more arcadey approach - damage, enemy AI, stealth, drones, missions, etc.. Immersive mode was added only due to subsequent player uproar and ever since the first release I think the developers have been playing catch-up to try to get the rest of the game into a state where it actually plays ball with Immersive mode. It's like swapping out the engine of a car it was never designed to have. Suspension, dampers, brakes and everything else needs to be adjusted to accommodate it.

I guess my point is, if they made the game even easier by enabling players to kill enemy AI with a single shot to the chest, how would they compensate? The enemy AI would require a very substantial overhaul, I think. It's just not designed to take vulnerability like that into account. The enemy AI rushes you, swarms you with little regard for self-preservation. You can snipe a Sammy and his pal will dive for cover, yet mere moments later he will be walking around in the open completely exposed wandering what happened, poor fella. Even on Extreme the game is too easy. With a bit of practice there it's hardly a bother to prioritize headshots.

All that said, though, I would love to see an injury system for the enemy AI. Maybe a shot to the chest would make them more prone to trigger an injury, making them stagger more, limp, crawl even, reload slower, aim poorer, seek cover more frequently. I think that would be a more interesting approach personally.

No wait I never said that the enemy would die with one bullet.. I mean the only caliber that will kill you with one chest shot is 7.62 or 338
However apart from improving enemy and team AI, they need to give enemies an injury system as you also said, like I shoot the guy in the leg he cat walk properly, I shoot at the shoulder/arm he can’t use his rifle, I shoot him in the chest and he doesn’t have a plate carrier, he only uses his handgun but can’t move
Of course it would also be based on caliber, like if he has a plate carrier it can stop a 5.56, but not a 7.62

[ozziozziozzi]

No wait I never said that the enemy would die with one bullet.. I mean the only caliber that will kill you with one chest shot is 7.62 or 338
However apart from improving enemy and team AI, they need to give enemies an injury system as you also said, like I shoot the guy in the leg he cat walk properly, I shoot at the shoulder/arm he can’t use his rifle, I shoot him in the chest and he doesn’t have a plate carrier, he only uses his handgun but can’t move
Of course it would also be based on caliber, like if he has a plate carrier it can stop a 5.56, but not a 7.62

THIS would be perfect (like it is in RDR2) and it also should be for our ghost as well.
For the suppressor, instead of reducing damage they should lower the range or the speed of the bullet.
Or they should add a news stuff in the game, not in this one but in the next one. We already have detection, why not add suspicion. If you use suppressor the ennemis they get less suspicious. But suspicion should increase slowly or faster after the first ennemis you killed. Why? Because they all communicated, imagine you are talking to a teammate and then suddenly no more communication you will get suspicion I guess. Maybe I should do a new thread about this.

[martbloke88]

My "issue" with better ballistics is this. If I add the "Ballistic" perk which people say make it more realistic, and equip an ASR or SMG with a good sight, I can easily snipe people from far in 1st person with these weapons (no aim assist). To me that doesn't seem too realistic although this is coming from someone with no real experience with these guns irl, just games. To me SMGs have always been for close combat, ASRs for medium distance combat and the DMR and SNR for long range but with better ballistics and scope, I can use any weapon.

That to me feels like an issue. I am for better ballistics for sure but I think maybe other things need to change with the weapons to make them meaningful to their type if you know what I mean. Accuracy and range need to be correct. Maybe if sniping in 1st person, accuracy o we distance is seriously affected for those guns that shouldn't really be useful outside X distance?

For this reason I do not equip the "Ballistic" perk to make me think about the weapon I'm using and try to attach relevant scopes (in my mind that is) for said weapon.

[Sandilands85]

As a rough point of reference for Real life accuracy maximum distances (on average)
9mm pistol 25m*
.45 cal pistol 25m*
9mm PCC 120m
5.56mm 300m (barrel length dependant)
7.62mm 800m (barrel length dependant)
.338 1600m+

Reference the pistols though it has been shown that within training skill and using proper marksman principles pistols can be shot accurately at upto 100m

[Jord-NL]

... and it also should be for our ghost as well. .

It kinda is already for our ghost. I've had plenty of one shots that staggered my Nomad, with health going down to a sliver, then the second shot killing her. And then if she packs the thickest armor I can find, since that stuff is cosmetic on the player's character anyway, it doesn't matter if she puts it on or leaves it in her bunk at Errorhon.

I just wish that in immersive, at the higher difficulties the damage code went both ways, if Nomad staggers from a shot to the body, then enemies should stagger as well from a shot to the body. And not continue to run my way as if they were only stung by a bee. But hunker down behind cover and put on their bandages.

[LimbThief]

This thread is one of the worst I have ever read in what people consider realism and yet have no idea how body armor or ballistics actually work or what calibers are actually capable of. To write that a plate carrier can’t stop a 7.62 is ludicrous or that you could be accurate with with a rifle or smg at whatever range doesn’t seem realistic even though you admitted to having no actual experience with these firearms is exactly why this game broke down with its audience. The clear lack of understanding of realism and what these weapons and calibers and protective equipment are actually about and then say you want more realism makes this thread so frustrating.

Body armor stops bullets. A plate carrier offers the same damage resistance per rating, however it covers less area while providing more maneuverablility. Getting hit in a vest regardless of the size of the vest WILL stop most bullets... even a .338 after repeated hits. A human will survive getting hit in non-vital soft tissue regardless of caliber.

The internet exists, you use it to write here, at least research the topic before making a claim on what is realistic.

The amount of misinformation on this one thread is infuriating.

[LimbThief]

As a rough point of reference for Real life accuracy maximum distances (on average)
9mm pistol 25m*
.45 cal pistol 25m*
9mm PCC 120m
5.56mm 300m (barrel length dependant)
7.62mm 800m (barrel length dependant)
.338 1600m+

Reference the pistols though it has been shown that within training skill and using proper marksman principles pistols can be shot accurately at upto 100m

What are you talking about? Real life accuracy maximum distance? In the Marines, every Marine, qualifies with M4/M16/M27 out to 500m. At the DMR course using the Mk12 and M38 we qualify out to 800m and beyond on unknown distance courses.

There are also courses where we handguns beyond 200m.

Practical application ranges for most handguns is 25m... that has nothing to do with real life accuracy, real life accuracy is your own hit probability with whatever combination of weapon platform and ammunition.

You can have a 14.5in barrel pistol shooting 9mm at 300m and hold MOA groups.

So I believe what you are referring to is practical application, but even then the information is inaccurate or misleading based on what organization, department, or range dictate. There are plenty of individuals in this world that practice extreme long range. There also plenty of organizations in this world that determine their own standard of what individuals are expected to maintain.

[raptor2-40delta]

This thread is one of the worst I have ever read in what people consider realism and yet have no idea how body armor or ballistics actually work or what calibers are actually capable of. To write that a plate carrier can’t stop a 7.62 is ludicrous or that you could be accurate with with a rifle or smg at whatever range doesn’t seem realistic even though you admitted to having no actual experience with these firearms is exactly why this game broke down with its audience. The clear lack of understanding of realism and what these weapons and calibers and protective equipment are actually about and then say you want more realism makes this thread so frustrating.

Body armor stops bullets. A plate carrier offers the same damage resistance per rating, however it covers less area while providing more maneuverablility. Getting hit in a vest regardless of the size of the vest WILL stop most bullets... even a .338 after repeated hits. A human will survive getting hit in non-vital soft tissue regardless of caliber.

The internet exists, you use it to write here, at least research the topic before making a claim on what is realistic.

The amount of misinformation on this one thread is infuriating.

You do realize that plate carriers can have different level of protection right? Basic bulletproof vest can’t even stop a 5.56 let alone a 7.62.. and also I stated in my comment that hey should add an injury for enemies, not a one shot one kill wherever they shoot.. because if I shoot at a sentinel with a plate carrier with a 7.62mm, let’s say that it’s a medium range **** and the plate stops the bullet, the kinetic energy alone will be enough to break that guy’s bones
And when you survive a shot, trust me, you’re not that able to fight like nothing happened.. and if you do believe that, I don’t think we’re the one who should do an internet research

[raptor2-40delta]

My "issue" with better ballistics is this. If I add the "Ballistic" perk which people say make it more realistic, and equip an ASR or SMG with a good sight, I can easily snipe people from far in 1st person with these weapons (no aim assist). To me that doesn't seem too realistic although this is coming from someone with no real experience with these guns irl, just games. To me SMGs have always been for close combat, ASRs for medium distance combat and the DMR and SNR for long range but with better ballistics and scope, I can use any weapon.

That to me feels like an issue. I am for better ballistics for sure but I think maybe other things need to change with the weapons to make them meaningful to their type if you know what I mean. Accuracy and range need to be correct. Maybe if sniping in 1st person, accuracy o we distance is seriously affected for those guns that shouldn't really be useful outside X distance?

For this reason I do not equip the "Ballistic" perk to make me think about the weapon I'm using and try to attach relevant scopes (in my mind that is) for said weapon.

Accuracy and range are kind of broken.. I use the range perk cause it’s actually more realistic, otherwise my Tac50 shot will drop at 500m and it’s not at all realistic
That’s why they need to improve ballistic and damage output of weapons with injury system in enemies as well

[LimbThief]

You do realize that plate carriers can have different level of protection right? Basic bulletproof vest can’t even stop a 5.56 let alone a 7.62.. and also I stated in my comment that hey should add an injury for enemies, not a one shot one kill wherever they shoot.. because if I shoot at a sentinel with a plate carrier with a 7.62mm, let’s say that it’s a medium range **** and the plate stops the bullet, the kinetic energy alone will be enough to break that guy’s bones
And when you survive a shot, trust me, you’re not that able to fight like nothing happened.. and if you do believe that, I don’t think we’re the one who should do an internet research

So you just chose to write something negative without reading what I wrote just to make yourself feel good even though you quoted me? Pretty sure that’s what you did since I specifically wrote per rating when referring to my plate carriers. Since you would like to seem smart I actually have been shot in combat in both in my plate carrier and not in engagements of less than 100m and 300m+ engagements. I joined the Marine Corps in 2002 and served my time as an 0321 an 0372 in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. Getting hit hurts... hurts a lot, but depending on placement and protection, but outside of critical injuries it’s nothing that’s going to take you out of the fight. The first time I was ever shot I took 3 rounds to the back in my plate carrier from an RPK inside a house and aside of a moment of recovery and some bruising I wasn’t operationally limited. In most cases it takes around 5 rounds to defeat a threat in a normal situation... more if drugs are involved which is why in training and in life we fire at least 5 rounds into our targets.

Considering Sentinel is supposed to be a top tier PMC and Wolves being the best of them, I highly doubt their running around with airsoft armor and second chance vests. They would at least have level III or level IV with plates. For reference the guys who were in the North Hollywood Shootout were using level III armor.

But what do I know, I only do this for a living. Video games and movies seem to dictate real life, not the other way around.