I honestly didn't like the latest reworking of the Warden proposed by Ubisoft, so I decided to make a rework of the Warden and post it on the Reddit platform (CompetitiveForHonor - / r / CompetitiveForHonor).
I leave the link to the rework:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...warden_if_its/
Read it and let me know in the comments what you think.
I hope the developers can read it because it was quite successful.
The thread is well-presented, and I like what I see.
I think the biggest reason the team decided to make the changes they did was to 1: save time, 2: easier to do than to make new animations with mocap, and 3: pandemic.
Now that rona is starting to be forgotten, I'm sure the team would be willing to add more changes to make Warden more unique as opposed to a shoulder basher.
They honestly could have released Warden's rework with Nobu and PK, as they were viable changes. However, they definitely aren't all the changes he deserves or what the community really wants.
I'm sure they could be using this time to make even better changes to Warden and Shugo.
Good work altogether, these changes would definitely change Warden up. In a good way, I mean. He really needs an expanded move set.
If they don't change his move set considerably (which I don't see happening, but the devs are always welcomed to surprise me) the least they could do besides changing his light follow-ups to 500 ms, is to give Warden a new attack chain (heavy into a light).
This could work like this:
Heavy opener is his current one (from every direction), light finisher is a thrust with his sword (from the sides), 500 ms and deals 13 or 14 damage. From the top it is a pommel strike which deals only 10 damage, but it is also 500 ms and stuns the opponent. These light are finishers, so of course they would end your chain, but you could follow them up with a shoulder bash. So Warden could preform this chain from neutral, after a wall-splat and after hitting the enemy with a charged Shoulder Bash.
In all honesty, they need to make Warden's moveset ACTUALLY reminiscent of at least SOME historical techniques. I never actually saw any of his kit to be authentic in any way.
There's no halfsword techniques in his kit, and the only two defensive guard stances are the On Guard(Top) and Flow Guard(Sides), out of like the twelve stances in longsword techniques.
Out of all the characters that have stances in the game, Warden could literally use them for authenticity purposes, as well as actual fighting and extra tools. Warden could have a defensive stance like HL or Shaolin, but actually be able to change guards and stances to open up more counter attack options, as well as thrusts or grapples or disabling moves like what historic manuals what typically suggest.
Here is a video of exactly what I'm talking about:
Cool stuff starts at 2:09
https://youtu.be/4GoQlvc_H3s
THIS is what Warden needs to be. Right now he's a weird, shoulder bashing, wide heavy swinging nut with no actual historic longsword fighting abilities.
Good stuff. I'm sold.In all honesty, they need to make Warden's moveset ACTUALLY reminiscent of at least SOME historical techniques. I never actually saw any of his kit to be authentic in any way.
There's no halfsword techniques in his kit, and the only two defensive guard stances are the On Guard(Top) and Flow Guard(Sides), out of like the twelve stances in longsword techniques.
Out of all the characters that have stances in the game, Warden could literally use them for authenticity purposes, as well as actual fighting and extra tools. Warden could have a defensive stance like HL or Shaolin, but actually be able to change guards and stances to open up more counter attack options, as well as thrusts or grapples or disabling moves like what historic manuals what typically suggest.
Here is a video of exactly what I'm talking about:
Cool stuff starts at 2:09
https://youtu.be/4GoQlvc_H3s
THIS is what Warden needs to be. Right now he's a weird, shoulder bashing, wide heavy swinging nut with no actual historic longsword fighting abilities.
So A for effort on the rework. Not many get proposed that actually have that level of detail. Though as a fellow Warden enthusiast I'm going to have to disagree with pretty much everything stated or asked for. Let's ease into it before I get into the main issues I have.
The first request is more chains. While I personally don't have anything against having more chains for well, pretty much any hero I can't see Ubi adding more to most. The devs really and I mean REALLY hone their craft for design around simplicity. They avoid kit bloat (see something like Shinobi,) and they tend to try and make additions to the kit that actually add substance. Adding more chains only bloats warden's kit and adds basically nothing of value. We've learned quite awhile ago that kit flow and move properties when used properly is ultimately what gets you godly designed heros like Black prior and Warmonger.
The second request for a new move. I just flat out disagree with the impale. Both Centurion and Gladiator are problematic fighters in team fights/ganks because their pin mechanic resets hitstun. We shouldn't be adding more of that into the game. Changing the same side light to 500ms would be fine. But it really wouldn't change anything for him. And reducing the stamina cost to his zone is fine.
Now lets get into my main problems with your post:
"they are so good that it no longer makes sense to use the "Top Heavy". What I mean is that the best hitbox attack shouldn't have more damage, there should always be a tradeoff between trajectory and damage, and in all honesty I preferred them at 800ms with 30dmg damage, as they were before this absurd rework."
This can easily be solved by just not buffing their damage. I don't see why you'd use this as your point to not have all of his finishers unblockable.
"I absolutely do not want to see the Warden become a Master of Shoulder Bash."
And this is what sealed your rework for me as a fanservice type rework more than a practical one. Warden IS shoulder bash the character. He always has and always will be. The devs had the opportunity to move away from this with his first rework. They chose to lean into it harder. It's perfectly fine to not like this. But you should never propose rework ideas based purely on disliking the design. Your concern of stamina consumption is a fair point. But this again can be fixed with number adjustments and isn't justification to abandon the change proposed by Ubi.
Here's something most people seem to be missing out with his rework. People complain so hard that all Warden does is bash and they want him to be using his chains more. You know what making his finishers unblockable and letting him bash from anything does? It gives MORE value to his chains. This means anything in his kit can lead me into his primo mix up. This means I can absolutely weigh the risk and reward with using finishers by potentially having access to a mix up right after. The removal of back dash into bash further pushes people into his chains.
There were legitimate problems caused by his rework which is likely why he was held back. But those problems are not mentioned here. The only place I could maybe see linking into his bash as being excessive would be after finishers. Because his bash still does pause stamina. Which makes for nasty OOS situations. But that's a problem with knight centric bashes in the first place and is likely going to be axed in the next update or two if the bug reporter continues to be a sign of future changes.
Personally i'm actually surprised that you didn't bother touching on his crushing counter. It's absurd from a damage perspective. Personally I'd like to see CC be removed from his top and instead stick it to his side lights. And his stamina problem can be fixed if we lower the cost of his bash or feints in general. I think there's room for improvement via making his second in chain light from other directions have some kind of value. And giving him something special for his CC since he's supposed to be a specialist with it compared to everyone else who has one. But I think overall your rework doesn't add much that isn't problematic or bloat and doesn't offer much in the way of reasons against some suggested changes. It's difficult to not look at it as some head cannon version of what Warden is to you rather than What Warden is to the game.
I'd suggest going to Warmonger if you really wanted a ryu to ken (or is it ken to ryu?) but ultimately she ends up having to dodge a lot for her mix up in higher skill brackets. So might not be someone's cup of tea. Then again trying to find a knight to play that's not around bashing is pretty tall ask.