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  1. #21
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Let me just say this, a bug being found and bug being fixed are two different things in the sense if the suits just say "we need this new content in two next weeks". You bet that no one will work in any bug unless it corrupts all the game files
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  2. #22
    Originally Posted by xcel30 Go to original post
    Let me just say this, a bug being found and bug being fixed are two different things in the sense if the suits just say "we need this new content in two next weeks".
    Finding root cause is not as easy as you think.
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  3. #23
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LateNiteDelight Go to original post
    I don't think QA contractors need to be "paid well"*, seeing as they get paid to play video games. I bet right now you could find a ton of folks willing to do it for $15/hr, health insurance and a PS5/XboxX/5600x+6800XT [since they have the AMD splash logo]

    Hell, I bet you could find a ton of HS or college students to do it for $15/hr + Hardware.
    Good developers value good QA folks. Why? Because they make the product better. Random people who aren't able to consistently reproduce or document their findings are of no use. QA requires consistency and a **** ton of attention to detail to do well. Imagination and being able to think out of the box are also important.

    People who complain about having to replay the same content for two years need not apply - because that's what they'll have to do repeatedly. And often in ways they don't enjoy.

    Source: former QA lead in IT consulting.

    Originally Posted by xcel30 Go to original post
    Let me just say this, a bug being found and bug being fixed are two different things in the sense if the suits just say "we need this new content in two next weeks". You bet that no one will work in any bug unless it corrupts all the game files
    Yep, prioritization of work often means less pressing issues (from managements POV) don't get fixed for a long time, or at all.

    Originally Posted by III_Hammer_III Go to original post
    Finding root cause is not as easy as you think.
    This.
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  4. #24
    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Good developers value good QA folks. Why? Because they make the product better. Random people who aren't able to consistently reproduce or document their findings are of no use. QA requires consistency and a **** ton of attention to detail to do well. Imagination and being able to think out of the box are also important. People who complain about having to replay the same content for two years need not apply - because that's what they'll have to do. And often in ways they don't enjoy.

    Source: former QA lead in IT consulting.
    It was more a commentary on the unubtanium that is new hardware, as well as the poor state of the global job market

    Poor, rushed effort on my part, as I think QA is important and should be valued - though I've probably watched Grandma's Boy a few too many times too

    The problem is still at the top though - if Ubi isn't giving it weight or funding, the Dev won't be able to justify the resources outside game breaking "Cyberpunk" level issues. Everything else becomes a "when we can get to it" problem.
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  5. #25
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LateNiteDelight Go to original post
    It was more a commentary on the unubtanium that is new hardware, as well as the poor state of the global job market
    Exploitation of desperate people is not a good look. Just sayin'

    The problem is still at the top though - if Ubi isn't giving it weight or funding, the Dev won't be able to justify the resources outside game breaking "Cyberpunk" level issues. Everything else becomes a "when we can get to it" problem.
    Pressure to hit release dates regardless of the state of the product is an industry wide problem. CDPR should have delayed their release (for the fourth time) for example, but it's clear they felt they had to release when they did to capture the Christmas market.
     1 people found this helpful
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  6. #26
    If I were in senior management o fa game developer studio, I would insist that the studio strive to develop a game they would want to play. If the developers don't have time to play this game after their 10 hours a day of hard work, then how could they expect that from others?

    Contrary to popular false narratives, games are not developed targeting people who don't have a professional and demanding job. I would say the game is in a pretty good place right now, but it took way too long to get this game to be able to be enjoyed with only investing a couple hours a day. Of course, I am speaking of the end game. Story mode has always been great for casuals.

    But one should be able to work a real job and not make the game their job, in order to fully enjoy it.

    And there is no excuse for the rope still being broken at the bounty in White House region. I personally reported it many months ago, as have many others, and it still is broken today. It can't take more than 5 minutes to fix that -- if one wanted to. Or if one managed issues effectively and it didn't fall through the cracks.
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  7. #27
    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Exploitation of desperate people is not a good look. Just sayin'
    TIL.. Testers can make anywhere from $40-70K - so in fact, $15/hr would be exploitative .. That's what I get for speaking out of ignorance on that part of the topic
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  8. #28
    Originally Posted by tcarlisle2012 Go to original post
    If I were in senior management o fa game developer studio, I would insist that the studio strive to develop a game they would want to play.
    You'd be out of a job soon enough.

    If the developers don't have time to play this game after their 10 hours a day of hard work, then how could they expect that from others?
    Developers don't just write code and then hand it over. If you write something, you run it to see if it works. In the case of game developing, running that code means "playing the game".

    And there is no excuse for the rope still being broken at the bounty in White House region. I personally reported it many months ago, as have many others, and it still is broken today. It can't take more than 5 minutes to fix that -- if one wanted to. Or if one managed issues effectively and it didn't fall through the cracks.
    Like I said many times, first, if they can't reproduce the error, they can't fix it. That rope is not broken for me, or my 2 sons who play the game as well. Second, how long it takes to fix is going to depend on what the root cause of the issue is.
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  9. #29
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by tcarlisle2012 Go to original post
    If I were in senior management o fa game developer studio, I would insist that the studio strive to develop a game they would want to play.
    God no. A developers job is to create games other people want to play, not cater to their personal taste.

    If the developers don't have time to play this game after their 10 hours a day of hard work, then how could they expect that from others?
    Few people I know want to spend their leisure time doing the same thing they've been doing at work. Many developers play other things after work. They do so to remain creatively fresh and examine approaches taken by other teams.
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  10. #30
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by III_Hammer_III Go to original post
    Hell, no.


    Not quite.
    Yes...thank you for that...detailed response. If you have some more insight or first hand knowledge, then by all means share.

    Anyway...

    The point I was trying to make is that QA is just as important to the health of a game as any other aspect of development. And on a product that's intended to be a live service with ongoing, it needs to likewise be an ongoing part of that health. And not something that's fired the second the game goes gold as appears to be the case with Division 2.

    What that means is including QA as an equal part of the product, and not an afterthought. And if you want a high quality product, than that generally also requires high quality people with commensurate pay and compensation.
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