Junior Member
INTRO:
I am a Lawbringer main. He is hard but I find him rewarding and fun to play. Nothing has been frustrating me more than going into a dual with Kensei or Gryphon because I always feel at a disadvantage with LB. I am a relatively new player so I am open to suggestions.
THE ISSUE:
(Primarily, superior dodge heavies)
My frustrations stem from an inability for LB to do any sort of damage besides light attacks to these characters. A lot of good Gryphon and Kensei players will use dodge heavies to avoid LB's chain attacks and heavy punishers. Normally I'd be fine with the moveset for assassin's. They have less health and have less effective chains and openers. The difference is that Gryphon has strong openers with a faster bash than LB, not to mention broken stamina regen. Kensei has dangerous openers and feints. Honestly the same issues probably apply to JJ, but I am not too familiar with that character.
To summarize a bit:
1) It makes it really hard to react and punish the opening moves.
2) Any sort of heavy chain or heavy punisher backfires with a dodge heavy.
3) GB never works because "superior dodge"
Thus the only tools LB has to fight back is light, feint light, and parry light. This isn't really effective or fun....
SOLUTIONS:
1) Give LB an undodgeable heavy. I think he had one in a previous patch? Maybe removed it for a good reason.
2) Make Gryphon and Kensei's dodges "non-superior."
3) Make dodge heavies on these characters more punishable... Like you can guarantee a heavy if it is parried etc...
Thanks for listening! If anyone is having the same experience I'd like to know how you have adapted to these characters!
Member
Member
Hello there!
I'm a rep 43 Lawbringer main, I'm not saying that I'm the best, but I hope I can give you some useful tips.
1. This will be quite general, but it is true. Practice makes better, so be sure to fight against the heroes you have problem with and eventually you will work something out which works for you against them.
2. If it really seems that you have a hard time improving against these two heroes, make sure to start playing Gryphon and Kensei. Learn their move sets, their strengths and weaknesses. If you have experience with them it should be easier to counter them as well with a different hero.
3.Practice blocking and parrying opener attacks against bots.
4. LB's main problem is that he don't really has any pressure from neutral and he also lacks chain pressure. You need to feint a lot of attacks with him or you will get parried a lot. But he is still quite strong when it comes to his defense so I suggest to use that against Kensei and Gryphon. You should play semi-aggressive and semi-defensive against them. Try to analyze them and you will see when are they going for a dodge attack. Then you can feint your heavies to bait a dodge attack and parry it. As LB you can get a good punish even after a heavy parry if a wall is near to you
5. Watch for zone option selects. If your opponent do it frequently get used to it and be prepared to parry it.
6. Don't try to punish Gryphons neutral bash with shove (your bash). If you managed to dodge it be prepared to parry or block Gryphons light follow-up. Don't use shove because it is no longer uninterruptible, so Gryphon will hit you out from it with his light follow-up. It is faster than shove.
7. Zone option select your enemy's unblockables. Just try to not do it to frequently. Mix it up with regular parries, otherwise your opponent will notice and punish you.
8. Learn Lawbringer's max punishes (if you haven't already).
I hope I could help, good luck!
Senior Member
I'm a Kensei main and I can safely say that LB's at my level have no issues with me. They just guardbreak me a lot and bait out dodge attacks.
LB gets a free impale charge off of heavy parries so if you parry kensei or gryphons side dodge attacks, just do a side heavy for a free impale and try to get wall bashes with it as that gives a free top heavy.
Also just a couple clarifying thoughts:
- LB has never had an undodgeable.
- only kensei gets superior block on dodge, not gryphon.
Member
Lb is funny because hero like gryphon and kensei are both bad and good matchup against him. Inpaling charge can turn out the fight as much as their dodge attack can do.Originally Posted by NinosPizza Go to original post
Try to.mix between gb them on prediction, overuse your impaling charge, stun them as much as you can.
In fact, Smart gryphon and kensei will not dodge that much against lb, but it will open them to lb mix up.
Just don't feint into gb because it definitely don't work. If you dellay your gb you ll have more time react and do the parry instead if they dodge attack.
An exemple : you can't hit them with your heavies because they dodge it. Well, lb is made for that because you can parry the dodge and get a confirmed top heavy + a followup light most of the time. Then aim a unblockable heavy and they will most likely try to dodge attack it, and here you go into an infinite vortex of impaling charge. It can be really fun.
Also, kensei feints are strong but not that big of a deal for a good lb (and by good, I mean someone who stay calm and don't loose it)
Outside of the dodge,
Kensei soft feints can only come from his top heavy, so keep that in mind. You will rarely see a kensei land his top heavy, but still keep you guard up so they don't get that you know they will feint.
For gryphon, LB is not more at a disadvantage than anyone else. You must dodge the kick on prediction and look for their favorite side for the undodgeable light (most gryphon are doing it in the same direction if it did land the first time)
Also lb have a generous throw distance and you can wallsplat him quite a lot (dodging the kick confirm a gb). But you should play gryphon a bit to know every shortcut he has to the kick, then it become almost easy to deal with them.
I m rep 20 lb but also 10 kensei and 15 gryphon and now I understand them very good and they are way easier to deal with, but fun to play also. So try them out !
But you are right. Lb vs gr/kn is a gameplay hell, and quite boring since you have to repeat the same bait again and again. Also you must concentrate all the time to control the pace of the fight. And what 3 lights chain heroes are doing against someone who has no hyperamor and have good bait/feint game ? Yess, lightspam xD this happen a lot on the 3rd round.
On your suggestions, I don't think lb need an undodgeable. Not more than any other heroes who don't have it. He has unblockables on every sides which is an interesting feature already.
You can't just remove superior dodge property because it would be a HUGE downside for gryphon and kensei. I know, as someone who felt for it a lot, that I wanted it too AS A LAWBRINGER. But after playing the other two, I understood that this was an egoist idea that would resolve my personnal struggle against them, but make them way weaker against anybody else.
Rising up the gb window maybe but not totally remove it.
See our last posts and feel free to join the discussions for lawbringer rework ideas !
