An idea about Lawbringer | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

First and foremost, I am aware of Csodaszarvas' thread about the same hero, but I don't want to disrupt it, my idea is completely different. I have only like 20 reps on this hero, but used to be my favourite (the "Ad mortem, inimicus" line was heard so much that my wife made it a part of her wedding vow). Eventually, I chose to play more dynamic heroes, but I would really like to see this hero evolving.

The concept (according to the trailer):

Lawbringer is big, extremely strong physically, and wears the best armor, with a heavy, long multipurpose weapon. He doesn't have to worry about being hit so much, he can be very aggressive, with strong, near unstoppable and very damaging attacks. His weakpoints should be: slower attacks, less mobility, less stamina than heroes in lighter armor.



Changes:

1. Impale range cut in half. Removed from parry.
2. Light riposte deals only 9 damage (a bit delay could result a normal light opener).
3. Chain heavies get hyperarmor from 300ms. Finishers become faster, but are not unblockable anymore. Remove their stamina drain.
4. Lights are enchanced from all sides, and chain into shove.
5. Shove on miss gets 600ms vulnerability against attacks (unable to block or parry).
6. Pressing back+heavy chains into an 800ms, unblockable (parriable) spike which can come from either side (not from top). Feintable, 12 stamina, 24 damage, acts as a spike, with the new spike traveling distance. Move the "No Survivor" line here from Longarm (or copy it).
7. Zone costs only 40 stamina, and chains.

[AbuZnood]

1. I see a lot of people talking about removing impaling riposte. But you realize that reducing the range by half and no riposte would make this move totally useless right ? This is one of his best tool and none of his parry punish should be touched since he is a counter attacker. Or just rework him completely and make him an agressive hero with good offense like everyone else.

2. Why ? isn't it already weak enough ? Again, none of his riposte should be touched more than they haev been already, especially if everything he get is some HA on his heavies.

3. You want to remove the oblockable property on the finishers ? And the stamina drain ? So LB would definitely not have any pressure, in addition to not have any offense ?
Your change on the heavies would just make him a wrost copy of warlord or or HL

4. not a bad idea, except for the top light which should just come back to be 400ms and still not being enhanced. This was a straight nerf that make no sense.

5. ehh why not ? but another nerf for having some HA ? Seriously ?

6. This is original. I like that.

7. This have been proposed many times, so yes.

But there is so many nerf that you porpose here that I wonder if you want lawbringer to be balanced or if you have trouble to fight him ^^ (just kidding)

I don't think he should get what he already have nerfed unless the devs rework him from ashes and change his identity.
Some of yours changes are good but they are just half the rework he should get to become a brand new hero with more offense. But still you diminish his defensive capacity by half so your changes are just letting him in the same spot in my opinion.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

1. I see a lot of people talking about removing impaling riposte. But you realize that reducing the range by half and no riposte would make this move totally useless right ? This is one of his best tool and none of his parry punish should be touched since he is a counter attacker. Or just rework him completely and make him an agressive hero with good offense like everyone else.

2. Why ? isn't it already weak enough ? Again, none of his riposte should be touched more than they haev been already, especially if everything he get is some HA on his heavies.

3. You want to remove the oblockable property on the finishers ? And the stamina drain ? So LB would definitely not have any pressure, in addition to not have any offense ?
Your change on the heavies would just make him a wrost copy of warlord or or HL

4. not a bad idea, except for the top light which should just come back to be 400ms and still not being enhanced. This was a straight nerf that make no sense.

5. ehh why not ? but another nerf for having some HA ? Seriously ?

6. This is original. I like that.

7. This have been proposed many times, so yes.

But there is so many nerf that you porpose here that I wonder if you want lawbringer to be balanced or if you have trouble to fight him ^^ (just kidding)

I don't think he should get what he already have nerfed unless the devs rework him from ashes and change his identity.
Some of yours changes are good but they are just half the rework he should get to become a brand new hero with more offense. But still you diminish his defensive capacity by half so your changes are just letting him in the same spot in my opinion.

I wanted to balance out some things, and Lawbringer is still a bit too strong defensively. He gets a top heavy on any parry in the ranked map (or on many maps), and his shove is unpunishable.

1. I think the distance change was mainly an idea because he gets a very long traveling distance into wallsplat, plus he would get a new impale move even from neutral, which would make him very oppressive with the current distance. Maybe the impale riposte can stay with this distance as well, though I am not a fan of having a move that punishes a heavy attack so harshly.

2. It is not weak now, it is the same damage as a normal heavy parry punish, with a free blind (if you go for damage, there is the zone). Also, it would chain into a shove among the other options (sorry for not making that clear), which makes it more dangerous.

3. I thought about this a lot, and since you could neutral spike or chain spike any given time, I thought it might be too much to let him have unblockable hyperarmored chain finishers that chain into a shove or a spike. I think it would have it's uses, especially in team fights, and he has enough pressure already with the normal attacks. I would not compare him to Warlord though, he would be more similar to a hybrid between a Raider and Gladiator.

4. No neutral attack should be 400ms, that is just too easily usable to interrupt offense. I think his lights would be more for getting into offense (hence why I suggested shove after light). Very fast attacks really should not be his thing.

5. Shove can be used after lights, which would turn it into a strong mid chain pressure tool. Currently, Lawbringer is mostly unpunishable (safe for some heroes) when he misses his shove, this would make the risk/reward fair.

6. I forgot to add here: usable from neutral, in chains, and after chain finisher.

7. This one is obvious.

[AbuZnood]

With the little addition on 6, then it would be something I could live with. But I would rather see lawbringer staying the "hard" hero with heavy punish on his parries rather than another button masher like many others.
His identity is not bad, but the progressive removal of his parry damages, his tools (shove on block, HA on shove) are letting him with a poor kit that is not adapted to the game as it is.He can be interrupted far too much and any initiative can be shut down pretty hard. So you just turtle and tryhard on your light parry,

So of course, HA would be a quick bandage on his flaws but I would love to see devs having some thoughts on him, like you did with point 6.

400ms lights is indeed a weird thing. I just can't imagine the little top poke being enhanced, I mean, physics don't work like that lmao.

Also if shove could wallsplat that would be fun.
Oh and rather then shove after lights (because you know it's for honor. People will cry about it 5 minutes after the testing ground has started), why not soft feint his heavies into shove ? It would make LB less predictable and allow him to have some guess game without having to hope that the opponent is bad at parry.

Another thing I thought about LB and that I see few people talking about, is that since shove on block has been removed because too broken, why couldn't he have all the other counter attack tools that exists ? Crushing counter on any side, mixed with the heavy soft feint into shove would work well. Superior block would also make sense.

If the devs only add him crushing counter on any side, and superior block on his heavies or on his dodge (with the same counterpart as kensei, which is to have his guard pointing the direction he dodge) that would already make lb far better without changing his identity.

[Csodaszarvas_G]

First and foremost, I am aware of Csodaszarvas' thread about the same hero, but I don't want to disrupt it, my idea is completely different. I have only like 20 reps on this hero, but used to be my favourite (the "Ad mortem, inimicus" line was heard so much that my wife made it a part of her wedding vow). Eventually, I chose to play more dynamic heroes, but I would really like to see this hero evolving.

The concept (according to the trailer):

Lawbringer is big, extremely strong physically, and wears the best armor, with a heavy, long multipurpose weapon. He doesn't have to worry about being hit so much, he can be very aggressive, with strong, near unstoppable and very damaging attacks. His weakpoints should be: slower attacks, less mobility, less stamina than heroes in lighter armor.



Changes:

1. Impale range cut in half. Removed from parry.
2. Light riposte deals only 9 damage (a bit delay could result a normal light opener).
3. Chain heavies get hyperarmor from 300ms. Finishers become faster, but are not unblockable anymore. Remove their stamina drain.
4. Lights are enchanced from all sides, and chain into shove.
5. Shove on miss gets 600ms vulnerability against attacks (unable to block or parry).
6. Pressing back+heavy chains into an 800ms, unblockable (parriable) spike which can come from either side (not from top). Feintable, 12 stamina, 24 damage, acts as a spike, with the new spike traveling distance. Move the "No Survivor" line here from Longarm (or copy it).
7. Zone costs only 40 stamina, and chains.

First of all, it's nice from you to post your own ideas in a separate thread. I appreciate that you didn't want to "disrupt" my thread (although I don't think you would have done it) and the more separate posts there are the higher the chance that someone at Ubisoft will eventually notice them.

You have some unique ideas about LB, I won't say that mine are better because I can't say that. It depends on every individual, everyone needs to decide for themselves which they like more. However, what I can definitely say is that they are different and in my eyes that is a good thing because when the devs will look for ideas and suggestions about LB they will have a bigger pool to chose from. And to tell you the truth I only want to see LB buffed. As long as that happens and the devs make it so that LB's design are more "aligned" with the games aggressive direction, I think that it doesn't really matter what buffs he gets. I only made my suggestions to provide the devs with some kind of guidance.

My only problem (sort of) whit your suggestions is that they would take away a big part from LB's identity. This version of LB is more Raider like IMO, who uses HA to trade a lot with enemies. However, you told us a lot of times that in your opinion LB's identity is flawed so I imagine that you made your suggestions according this opinion. And BTW I respect others opinions, I just wanted to point out that identity still matters to a lot of people and the devs are also kinda stubborn when it comes to changing identities.

I like your new impale move, it's creative and it has the ability to force reactions out from enemies. Chaining attacks from "everything" allows for more mix-ups and makes LB more unpredictable, so those are also good changes. But I think that when it comes to impale it would solve most of the problems with that move if it would be guaranteed only after a light parry, because since you could do it after a light parry, the punish you get after a wallsplat is not greater than the top unblockable + quick justice finisher. And with the ongoing map reworks the devs are removing most of the traps and they closing of (at least some parts of) ledges so it would be rare that LB gets a "one-shot" kill (and most of the time some careless team mates will mess up your punish anyways).

But I'm not in a position to judge. Your suggestions seems well thought out.

(P.S.: Did your wife really do that?! Wow, that is really cool! She must be a lovely woman! I wish the best for you two!)

[Goat_of_Vermund]

First of all, it's nice from you to post your own ideas in a separate thread. I appreciate that you didn't want to "disrupt" my thread (although I don't think you would have done it) and the more separate posts there are the higher the chance that someone at Ubisoft will eventually notice them.

You have some unique ideas about LB, I won't say that mine are better because I can't say that. It depends on every individual, everyone needs to decide for themselves which they like more. However, what I can definitely say is that they are different and in my eyes that is a good thing because when the devs will look for ideas and suggestions about LB they will have a bigger pool to chose from. And to tell you the truth I only want to see LB buffed. As long as that happens and the devs make it so that LB's design are more "aligned" with the games aggressive direction, I think that it doesn't really matter what buffs he gets. I only made my suggestions to provide the devs with some kind of guidance.

My only problem (sort of) whit your suggestions is that they would take away a big part from LB's identity. This version of LB is more Raider like IMO, who uses HA to trade a lot with enemies. However, you told us a lot of times that in your opinion LB's identity is flawed so I imagine that you made your suggestions according this opinion. And BTW I respect others opinions, I just wanted to point out that identity still matters to a lot of people and the devs are also kinda stubborn when it comes to changing identities.

I like your new impale move, it's creative and it has the ability to force reactions out from enemies. Chaining attacks from "everything" allows for more mix-ups and makes LB more unpredictable, so those are also good changes. But I think that when it comes to impale it would solve most of the problems with that move if it would be guaranteed only after a light parry, because since you could do it after a light parry, the punish you get after a wallsplat is not greater than the top unblockable + quick justice finisher. And with the ongoing map reworks the devs are removing most of the traps and they closing of (at least some parts of) ledges so it would be rare that LB gets a "one-shot" kill (and most of the time some careless team mates will mess up your punish anyways).

But I'm not in a position to judge. Your suggestions seems well thought out.

(P.S.: Did your wife really do that?! Wow, that is really cool! She must be a lovely woman! I wish the best for you two!)

(She really is. Thank you! )

It would be somewhat similar to Raider and Gladiator indeed, but I think it would not completely erase what Lawbringer is: a strong, heavily armored warrior who destroys opponents with a few devastating hits. He currently doesn't feel like one, he feels clumsy, sometimes even to afraid to attack, someone who basically can not hurt you until you match his guard without throwing a heavy. The changes would stop people comfortably staying in their face (something you would never do against the other heavy/hybrid knights).

Maybe the spike on lights only could even it out a bit. I feel like this version would be quite top tier even with normal punishes.