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  1. #11
    Virtual-Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by El_Cuervacho Go to original post
    I think the ultimate proof that this mechanic was never meant to be used in the context of an openworld game, is in the fact that there's no cooldown at all in FS, where it belonged.
    They could've better implemented it in WL and BP, simply by restricting it to contacts that are within line of sight of our team mates; mark somebody that isn't and the AI will be forced to move in order to find an angle on the target, something that they used to do even in FS.
    Agreed. It’s clear the game has an accurate LoS calculator routine for determining enemy detection and targeting... why they chose not to implement that for sync shots is probably because most players would quickly realize how limited it was, and not bother using it. By enabling it to cheat, it encouraged more use. Why they care about that vs realism is the main issue. But the AI team cheats in so many ways... teleporting, having more robust health, being invisible. Ugh.
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  2. #12
    Steven527's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Virtual-Chris Go to original post
    Agreed. It’s clear the game has an accurate LoS calculator routine for determining enemy detection and targeting...
    It does? I was under the impression that it is thoroughly broken hence why the AI can shoot me through things it should not be able to. Through concrete abutments, inside a helo, inside an armor car , through underbrush I can't see through even with thermals etc
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  3. #13
    El_Cuervacho's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Steven527 Go to original post
    It does? I was under the impression that it is thoroughly broken hence why the AI can shoot me through things it should not be able to. Through concrete abutments, inside a helo, inside an armor car , through underbrush I can't see through even with thermals etc
    You think these are bullets they're firing? CIA gun-shapped blank-firing heart attack remotes!
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  4. #14
    Virtual-Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Steven527 Go to original post
    It does? I was under the impression that it is thoroughly broken hence why the AI can shoot me through things it should not be able to. Through concrete abutments, inside a helo, inside an armor car , through underbrush I can't see through even with thermals etc
    Yeah, I didn't say it was well implemented, just that it's there.
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  5. #15
    NLxAROSA's Avatar Senior Member
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    Devs in Wildlands: here, have some AI team mates
    Players: these AI team mates suck! They're the worst!
    Devs in Breakpoint: ok, we heard you, no AI team mates then
    Players: WTF, no AI team mates?!!?!!, this game sucks!
    Devs: Errrm, ok, here's the AI team mates back
    Players: these AI team mates suck! They're the worst!
    Devs: ...
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  6. #16
    AI BLUEFOX's Avatar Senior Member
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    I agree the LoS mechanic is there, Chris, and occasionally the AI team mates choose to use it when the marked enemy moves out of sight. As with the enemy AI "choosing" not to use it when you haven't commanded your team mates.

    I do like that the cool down doesn't stop you marking the next target now, but as Crock points out, it's more of an enemy delete feature as currently implemented. I'd prefer to hear my team mates question my competence - in a robust SF kind of way - for calling an impossible shot or expecting them to move to a suicidal position, than have them shoot through obstructions. Then I'd rather have to wait while they find a position instead of having a cool down. File it in the somewhat bulky "stop holding my hand" suggestion folder.
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  7. #17
    AI BLUEFOX's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by NLxAROSA Go to original post
    Devs in Wildlands: here, have some AI team mates
    Players: these AI team mates suck! They're the worst!
    Devs in Breakpoint: ok, we heard you, no AI team mates then
    Players: WTF, no AI team mates?!!?!!, this game sucks!
    Devs: Errrm, ok, here's the AI team mates back
    Players: these AI team mates suck! They're the worst!
    Devs: ...

    ... what if we addressed the issues ... hmmm.
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  8. #18
    NLxAROSA's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by AI BLUEFOX Go to original post
    ... what if we addressed the issues ... hmmm.
    Or "independent AI is a really tough nut to crack without resorting to micromanagement of team mates and keeping it still fun in terms of gameplay at the same time, oh and it has to be usable with a gamepad"?

    I mean, I wouldn't mind having a game-within-a-game managing my squad in detail, but fat chance of that happening.
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  9. #19
    AI BLUEFOX's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by NLxAROSA Go to original post
    Or "independent AI is a really tough nut to crack without resorting to micromanagement of team mates and keeping it still fun in terms of gameplay at the same time, oh and it has to be usable with a gamepad"?

    I mean, I wouldn't mind having a game-within-a-game managing my squad in detail, but fat chance of that happening.
    I've only ever really played on Xbox with a gamepad so it's not a PC vs console issue as far as I am concerned. The small amount of time I have on the PC version is also with a controller.

    The original concept of tactical control over a squad wasn't a game within a game, it was the game. Controlling way points and RoE is not micromanaging it is command to me, and even if the team AI were perfect I'd still like that control. Independent AI is a tough nut to crack I agree especially in an open world. That is why some relatively simple and easy to use player control would help out a great deal.
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  10. #20
    Steven527's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by AI BLUEFOX Go to original post
    I've only ever really played on Xbox with a gamepad so it's not a PC vs console issue as far as I am concerned. The small amount of time I have on the PC version is also with a controller.

    The original concept of tactical control over a squad wasn't a game within a game, it was the game. Controlling way points and RoE is not micromanaging it is command to me, and even if the team AI were perfect I'd still like that control. Independent AI is a tough nut to crack I agree especially in an open world. That is why some relatively simple and easy to use player control would help out a great deal.
    Even the basic commands that were in the original flashpoint would help. As it is I mostly tell my team to stay out of the way until things go hot.
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