So ehhhmmm I took back lazbringer from the closet | Forums

[AbuZnood]

And Jesus Christ, what a bad design.

LB my first character until rep 8 before I switched to another one because this one was definitely not made for my playstyle, and overall for my poor knowledge of the game. Now that I have more knowledge about the game, better reflexes and more self control, I took it back a bit for a few days.

This character is clearly the weakest of the roaster, (maybe Shinobi can sit on his legs but for other reasons) because he rely only on what every other heroes can do (AKA : parry and feinted heavies) and has nothing else. Also since all his damage have been nerfed, or so I heard, his "counter-attack"game punish is not worth more than the one of other heroes.
I thought that Warlord was an outdated hero, but after a while playing him, when you understand HOW to play him, he is quit strong with his simple though solid kit, his fun feats and his gear perks that makes him a real opponent.

But lawbringer, oh my. When you play him, you really feel that "unfairness". This guy has so much bad matchup that it become absurd. When you win a fight, you really feel like you outsmarted your opponent, and bit of luck also. (this is how the game should be I admit, but when you are the only one to use your bain on the battlefield, you just feel like rainman, smart but alone in the world)

He is a good 1v1 hero, with surprisingly good capacity against shugoki, and is a fair opponent for Warden and other old school heroes. But against Kensei, Orochi, Nobushi, Conqueror, Black Prior, and so much more, he is at a disadvantage, but at some point that it is masochism to only run in these fights.

- His hitbox has nothing special despite having a long weapon, like shugo and gryphon
- Only one light at a time, forcing to feint every hit to chip his opponent out and do a bit of pressure, like berserker but without HA behind
- Slow dodge recovery, and the shove on dodge is more of an annoyance to punish enemy bashes because it force you to delay your GB
- Not so good damage output, they have been all nerfed if I recall, but why ? At least if he could thorn enemy HP apart it would've been a balance
- No HA anywhere, which is not that of a problem in 1v1, but is probably the most essential thing in gank now. A lawbringer ganked can't do anything but turtle until he gets revenge, and even then, if enemy are smart, they will just turtle and you can completely negate his revenge. His unblockable zone parry punish is a joke in these situation. I can barely hear the ganker say "oooww that's cute".
- The shove on dodge let you vulnerable to a lot of attack and is usually interrupted or easily dodged

Parry, parry, parry. He is a Counter-Attacker. Every hero in this game is a counter Attacker at that point. Except his stunning tap, and his capacity to wallsplat (also negated in gank), he has nothing special to call him so. Orochi is a counter attacker but he has far better offense option (if you know better than mashing three time on the left click thinking that your opponent will be astonished by your super human anime speed).
I know about his light parry top heavy follow-up, wihch can lead to a crazy chain of *** kicking, but how can there be a hero that rely almost only on light parry to win, while most of the roaster rely on light ATTACKS to win ? Every hero rely on light parry to win. In fact, if you can light parry consistently, you are above 80% of the player base with any hero.

People will say that he is not a trader, not an offensive character, but he is not a defensive character either, not more than kensei or shugoki, he don't have much to offer. All the shield character are much better either in offense and defense.

Lawbringer would be fine in the game how it should be, but with the game how he is now, he need to be rebuild, or at least, addapted to the direction the game have. He is the only last true turtle, and I think the devs have to forget that idea sine they want the game to be on steroid all the time.

So I think the next rework should be for lawbringer, along with shinobi, maybe aramusha, ... You, people who asked for the nerf of lawbringer, and now, say that "No his fine. S-tier Hero. Best Hero in the game."
I undertand that it is frustrating to admit new threats on the battlefield, and that it will awake old ptsd of a period where lawbringer being fearsome (I heard of the shove on block, honestly I would've like to know the game at this period lol, just epic) but let's all be honest, at this point lawbringer is no more viable, nor fun to play. He doesn't even fullfill his role as a counter-attacker. And When I play against a lawbringer with gryphon for example, I don't find it fun when I put 3-0 on him because I know how flawed he is. (especially against dodge attacker, oh my what a mess)

Maybe some lawbringer main with more rep with him can explain to me how is he good, because maybe I don't get the character yet ?

[MrBdur]

And Jesus Christ, what a bad design.

LB my first character until rep 8 before I switched to another one because this one was definitely not made for my playstyle, and overall for my poor knowledge of the game. Now that I have more knowledge about the game, better reflexes and more self control, I took it back a bit for a few days.

This character is clearly the weakest of the roaster, (maybe Shinobi can sit on his legs but for other reasons) because he rely only on what every other heroes can do (AKA : parry and feinted heavies) and has nothing else. Also since all his damage have been nerfed, or so I heard, his "counter-attack"game punish is not worth more than the one of other heroes.
I thought that Warlord was an outdated hero, but after a while playing him, when you understand HOW to play him, he is quit strong with his simple though solid kit, his fun feats and his gear perks that makes him a real opponent.

But lawbringer, oh my. When you play him, you really feel that "unfairness". This guy has so much bad matchup that it become absurd. When you win a fight, you really feel like you outsmarted your opponent, and bit of luck also. (this is how the game should be I admit, but when you are the only one to use your bain on the battlefield, you just feel like rainman, smart but alone in the world)

He is a good 1v1 hero, with surprisingly good capacity against shugoki, and is a fair opponent for Warden and other old school heroes. But against Kensei, Orochi, Nobushi, Conqueror, Black Prior, and so much more, he is at a disadvantage, but at some point that it is masochism to only run in these fights.

- His hitbox has nothing special despite having a long weapon, like shugo and gryphon
- Only one light at a time, forcing to feint every hit to chip his opponent out and do a bit of pressure, like berserker but without HA behind
- Slow dodge recovery, and the shove on dodge is more of an annoyance to punish enemy bashes because it force you to delay your GB
- Not so good damage output, they have been all nerfed if I recall, but why ? At least if he could thorn enemy HP apart it would've been a balance
- No HA anywhere, which is not that of a problem in 1v1, but is probably the most essential thing in gank now. A lawbringer ganked can't do anything but turtle until he gets revenge, and even then, if enemy are smart, they will just turtle and you can completely negate his revenge. His unblockable zone parry punish is a joke in these situation. I can barely hear the ganker say "oooww that's cute".
- The shove on dodge let you vulnerable to a lot of attack and is usually interrupted or easily dodged

Parry, parry, parry. He is a Counter-Attacker. Every hero in this game is a counter Attacker at that point. Except his stunning tap, and his capacity to wallsplat (also negated in gank), he has nothing special to call him so. Orochi is a counter attacker but he has far better offense option (if you know better than mashing three time on the left click thinking that your opponent will be astonished by your super human anime speed).
I know about his light parry top heavy follow-up, wihch can lead to a crazy chain of *** kicking, but how can there be a hero that rely almost only on light parry to win, while most of the roaster rely on light ATTACKS to win ? Every hero rely on light parry to win. In fact, if you can light parry consistently, you are above 80% of the player base with any hero.

People will say that he is not a trader, not an offensive character, but he is not a defensive character either, not more than kensei or shugoki, he don't have much to offer. All the shield character are much better either in offense and defense.

Lawbringer would be fine in the game how it should be, but with the game how he is now, he need to be rebuild, or at least, addapted to the direction the game have. He is the only last true turtle, and I think the devs have to forget that idea sine they want the game to be on steroid all the time.

So I think the next rework should be for lawbringer, along with shinobi, maybe aramusha, ... You, people who asked for the nerf of lawbringer, and now, say that "No his fine. S-tier Hero. Best Hero in the game."
I undertand that it is frustrating to admit new threats on the battlefield, and that it will awake old ptsd of a period where lawbringer being fearsome (I heard of the shove on block, honestly I would've like to know the game at this period lol, just epic) but let's all be honest, at this point lawbringer is no more viable, nor fun to play. He doesn't even fullfill his role as a counter-attacker. And When I play against a lawbringer with gryphon for example, I don't find it fun when I put 3-0 on him because I know how flawed he is. (especially against dodge attacker, oh my what a mess)

Maybe some lawbringer main with more rep with him can explain to me how is he good, because maybe I don't get the character yet ?

LB is still strong, but not S tier, and no one around here has called him OP since his nerf.

He is ABSOLUTELY not as bad as Shinobi.

Shinobi, PK, Nobushi, and more are all in worse spots than LB.

Last true turtle? Did you forget about Conqueror?

Shove on block was broken and HA on shove was more broken.

LB is fine for the time being. More important things to fix.

[AbuZnood]

LB is still strong, but not S tier, and no one around here has called him OP since his nerf.

He is ABSOLUTELY not as bad as Shinobi.

Shinobi, PK, Nobushi, and more are all in worse spots than LB.

Last true turtle? Did you forget about Conqueror?

Shove on block was broken and HA on shove was more broken.

LB is fine for the time being. More important things to fix.

Isn't conqueror kind of a half turtle right now ? he can do pretty good offense. The point with him is to know when to go back to turtle and use your full guard smartly.
Well PK and Nobushi will get some toys if the training ground changes are implemented.

I don't say he should get back what he has (I don't even know what it is so I would be the last to vote for this)
But as far as it goes, when I play lawbringer I have hard time to do anything good (it's possible, I do, but it;s not consistent. It's a lot of coin toss) and I don't see much lawbringer shining on the battlefield when I don't play him.

Well, I don't say it's a top priority, the top priority is to fix bots in breach on PC (you know, the ones that just run forward until they meet a wall lol)

[Goat_of_Vermund]

LB is still strong, but not S tier, and no one around here has called him OP since his nerf.

He is ABSOLUTELY not as bad as Shinobi.

Shinobi, PK, Nobushi, and more are all in worse spots than LB.

Last true turtle? Did you forget about Conqueror?

Shove on block was broken and HA on shove was more broken.

LB is fine for the time being. More important things to fix.

Lb is quiet decent yet. Fallen from the top, but totally okay in every game mode. He still gets a heavy on a heavy parry on most maps with spike, his shove mixup is a very safe offense tool, he recovers in time after missing it to even parry a dodge attack.

His identity is bad. He should not be so good in defense, and so bad in offense.

[MrBdur]

Isn't conqueror kind of a half turtle right now ? he can do pretty good offense. The point with him is to know when to go back to turtle and use your full guard smartly.
Well PK and Nobushi will get some toys if the training ground changes are implemented.

I don't say he should get back what he has (I don't even know what it is so I would be the last to vote for this)
But as far as it goes, when I play lawbringer I have hard time to do anything good (it's possible, I do, but it;s not consistent. It's a lot of coin toss) and I don't see much lawbringer shining on the battlefield when I don't play him.

Well, I don't say it's a top priority, the top priority is to fix bots in breach on PC (you know, the ones that just run forward until they meet a wall lol)

Nah Conq is full on Grand Turtle Supreme.

Lawbro isn't easy to do well with anymore but he can still be a monster when played properly.

[Knight_Raime]

You're correct that LB's design is poor. But the substance of the post isn't correct. LB is still a very strong hero.
He still has a high HP pool. Still has some over tuned punishes. Still has impale on parry. Still has a good selection of feats.
and still a good mid clear with unlock zone.

[AbuZnood]

I knew this would've been the answer I get. Idk how to convince you guys, these are just my impressions. I know all the tools he have on paper, but in real situations, it's another story.

When I play Gryphon for example, or even Warlord, I can hold a weak team on my shoulder in breach. With LB I can barely do something without my teammates. Too slow. If I get ganked, I can only parry because any try of doing anything will lead to be interrupted and becoming a giant punching ball, and when revenge pop out, you get bullied because you don't have any real offense.

I did exagerate a bit while saying that he is the weakest char on the roaster. I admit. He is good in 1v1 situations against a lot of other heroes, if you don't whiff your punish and keep your cool. But against warmonger for exemple, it is just ridiculous, she has better hitbox, frame advantage on every attack, and have far enough stamina to chain bash you all your HP without running out of stam. His attack recover fast anough to block a dodge attack, except kensei one. You have to bait the dodge otherwise he will hit you, then chip you out with one or two lights, then pommel strike, then unblo feint into gb feint into lights feint into zone feint into... you are dead. And he has better reach than you so anyway.

I think the most frustrating thing with him, is to be interrupted all the time whatever you try to do, while almost every other hero can trade with you.

I just think that LB does not have his place in a game full of 400-500ms lights chain, unreactable bashes, hyper armor everywhere, unblockables lights, dodge attack immune to gb after startup, fullblock stance with confirmed heavies, and list goes on and goes on. I like all these features, but lawbringer lacking any of these seem a bit out of place that's all.

And I think at least a small fix for his viability in gank would be HA on his heavy finishers. At least. You know the problem with shugoki was that he only has to click once to become uninterruptible, juggernaut is quit a useless feat for him. Well, lawbringer is all the opposite, you just have to press one button to stop him in his mixup, and since it rely a lot on feinting, it is easy task.
Talking about juggernaut, yes, when you activate juggernaute on Lb, things are getting definitely dirty.

I've never felt so weak than since I played Lb again. And I don't just play the cheesy Gryphon. I played so far : Berzerker, Warlord, Conqueror, and Gryphon, So i have my feinting game, I know how to parry even in gank (and even lights sometimes, it is coming slowly), and I know how to turtle. I should be the good client for LB no ? Even then, I feel this character is just below the others, but far below.

With every of these hero, after 5 to 10 rep in them was becoming solid, and at rep 14-15, I was a strong element in my teams, wh ocan defend a zone alone against two opponents at least. (except gryphon of course since he was new and people had hard time fighting him, so he was always a bit over the top)

He is good at destroying the commander in breach. Oh yeah, for that he is amazing. Just pop revenge, and you can eat half his health alone before falling.

[MrBdur]

I knew this would've been the answer I get. Idk how to convince you guys, these are just my impressions. I know all the tools he have on paper, but in real situations, it's another story.

When I play Gryphon for example, or even Warlord, I can hold a weak team on my shoulder in breach. With LB I can barely do something without my teammates. Too slow. If I get ganked, I can only parry because any try of doing anything will lead to be interrupted and becoming a giant punching ball, and when revenge pop out, you get bullied because you don't have any real offense.

I did exagerate a bit while saying that he is the weakest char on the roaster. I admit. He is good in 1v1 situations against a lot of other heroes, if you don't whiff your punish and keep your cool. But against warmonger for exemple, it is just ridiculous, she has better hitbox, frame advantage on every attack, and have far enough stamina to chain bash you all your HP without running out of stam. His attack recover fast anough to block a dodge attack, except kensei one. You have to bait the dodge otherwise he will hit you, then chip you out with one or two lights, then pommel strike, then unblo feint into gb feint into lights feint into zone feint into... you are dead. And he has better reach than you so anyway.

I think the most frustrating thing with him, is to be interrupted all the time whatever you try to do, while almost every other hero can trade with you.

I just think that LB does not have his place in a game full of 400-500ms lights chain, unreactable bashes, hyper armor everywhere, unblockables lights, dodge attack immune to gb after startup, fullblock stance with confirmed heavies, and list goes on and goes on. I like all these features, but lawbringer lacking any of these seem a bit out of place that's all.

And I think at least a small fix for his viability in gank would be HA on his heavy finishers. At least. You know the problem with shugoki was that he only has to click once to become uninterruptible, juggernaut is quit a useless feat for him. Well, lawbringer is all the opposite, you just have to press one button to stop him in his mixup, and since it rely a lot on feinting, it is easy task.
Talking about juggernaut, yes, when you activate juggernaute on Lb, things are getting definitely dirty.

I've never felt so weak than since I played Lb again. And I don't just play the cheesy Gryphon. I played so far : Berzerker, Warlord, Conqueror, and Gryphon, So i have my feinting game, I know how to parry even in gank (and even lights sometimes, it is coming slowly), and I know how to turtle. I should be the good client for LB no ? Even then, I feel this character is just below the others, but far below.

With every of these hero, after 5 to 10 rep in them was becoming solid, and at rep 14-15, I was a strong element in my teams, wh ocan defend a zone alone against two opponents at least. (except gryphon of course since he was new and people had hard time fighting him, so he was always a bit over the top)

He is good at destroying the commander in breach. Oh yeah, for that he is amazing. Just pop revenge, and you can eat half his health alone before falling.

I mean, by starting with "i knew this is the answer I'd get" you basically just state you are unwilling to listen to more experienced players, and so I'm going to take my exit from this conversation.

Have a good one :P

[King_of_Xibalba]

he was one of the best now is b tier, if you like offensive playstyle or don`t have the best reaction (in a reading mostly type of game) don´t choose him, he is designed in a way is somewhat counterintuitive, is strong but with limited offense, but have very good punishes. Bad design mostly, post ccu.

[Csodaszarvas_G]

Hello everyone!

I'm a rep 41 LB main so I believe that I can provide some insight about the hero (I'm not saying that I'm perfect with him or I know everything). My biggest problem about him is that he feels slow and static and he relies on his defense way to much in a game where everything is shifting towards being more aggressive and faster. On the top of that his attack chains are not that useful when it comes to applying pressure on the enemy. I need to faint a lot of attacks with him, but then my opponent just can simply option select me. So if anybody is thinking about playing LB the first thing to remember is that you need to get ready for parrying the option selects and as long as there aren't any other enemies around you and you also have a wall close to you, you can get a good punish.

But, yeah, he needs more options to apply chain pressure (therefore force some kind of reaction out from the opponent) and be more aggressive in general. I came up with some changes about him not long ago, if you're interested than you can check it out, maybe add some of your own suggestions as well. The more reasonable and balance oriented ideas we can gather, the better.

https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthrea...ove-Lawbringer

Thanks for reading, have a nice day!