It's clear at this point that no rework is coming for shinobi. They dont even acknowledge that there's a problem with the hero. They've reworked warden twice before even thinking about working on shinobi. The community devs on here actively avoid any thread related to shinobi, and when they do reply, they pretend like they're taking feedback, but in reality they're just pretending.
Dont waste your time trying to come up with suggestions on how to improve the hero, because it will just get ignored. Your time would be better spend elsewhere, this game has lost the dev team that were passionate about the game.
Buddy, I think we realized that after Shinobi receiving 5+ nerfs and every season him either being ignored or another nerf. But this season... was the final straw in my opinion. You show Shinobi in the trailer but him getting dunked on (ledged by Gryphon.) And to buff Warden, Nobushi, and PK. That honestly was a slap in my face. Until then, I'll still try my best to smack s-tiers with Shinobi.
Shinobi fighting moves are amazing, but the penalties are! And the rewards he reaps are the bad ones.
For example, we have most of the characters dodging and then a quick or heavy hit! Including all the assassination figures, as well as most other characters, except for the Shinobi, even though he is an assassination character.
His penalty for double avoidance is also high, although the penalty for tändi for repeated avoidance is very small and very effective!
His penalty for obstruction while running is very frightening, the movement is not guaranteed and does not cause much trouble for the opponent, however it consumes a lot of energy, and disrupts energy recovery for five seconds.
While most of the characters with similar take very little damage and have high potency
Another punishment is light attack slowness, and a shinobi can be blocked when it makes a double dodge, not like Tainde.
The least that can be done for a shinobi is to balance the punishment in his moves!
I hope your face will be slapped again as soon as possible. Can't wait for that pk buff, she totally needs it, and waits for it longer than Shinobi.Originally Posted by Porch- Go to original post
Reworking a hero who uses ranged attack and double dodge is very hard- this are things nobody else has, so they are either useless, or broken. I think for a normal rework, they must remove ranged moves (or nerf them even more heavily, or let them to be used only in specific chains), while the double dodge should be nerfed as well, since he can cover more ground with dodges than anyone else. But if we do that, will it be the same character after that? I think it would be very different, and that is why he is not receiving a rework, it would be a nightmare to redesign him.
I don't think a redesign is necessary. Retaining the identity of a low HP hero that's hard-to-hit could work if they address the weaknesses and broken parts. The ranged attacks can stay. However, one small change could be when Shinobi's ranged attacks get parried or counter GB'd, the tumble could be cancelled with a Forward Roll by pressing Dodge. The defender would only get a confirmed light or parry punish if he/she is up close but would only have frame advantage in a ranged scenario when Shinobi rolls forward. Not only would this address the weakness in his ranged offense but also add a mind game to the mix.Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
The Zone Attack standard cancel should have buffered input timings like other multi-hit zones, along with multiple cancel options such as Dodge, Sickle Rain, and ranged GB.
I would also give him the complete two-hit chain set and allow him to follow light finishers with a heavy finisher/Sickle Rain. Also, his neutral heavies should be feintable in mid-air.
Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Dawn Go to original post
Maybe it can be done. I wrote a rework idea in the past where Shinobi could access multiple chains from range, but any parry could net the appropriate punish (heavy for light parry, light for heavy parry), and would pull the Shinobi in. In 1v1, it can be done. However, it is a very hard thing to really balance out, because it forces the opponent to solely be defensive, since the Shinobi can attack from a chain, while the opponent can not. I think that might work is a Ranged Stance, where it can only be accessed after a succesful backflip or forward roll kick, and it would basically force you to do the ranged stance mixup or the stance would be canceled.
A serious balance idea should place Shinobi inside the box somehow: it should be built on offense, and it shouldn't force the opponent into being defensive, so I think using the (buffed) range attack should be a reward, not a neutral thing.
We can agree on one thing, if Shinobi gets careless with his/her ranged attacks, he/she is getting pulled in. With consequences to using ranged attacks, I don't think players fighting Shinobis would be forced to be excessively defensive. That is the current scenario now but eating a confirmed heavy for a countered ranged heavy or GB is too much and has made ranged offense too risky in 1v1s. Again, getting Shinobi pulled in and giving frame advantage to the defender should be enough.Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post