What is wrong and what is fine with Gryphon? | Forums

[Fulgent_Knight]

New hero arrived and as always bring chaos into solo queue dominion matches. A want to point out what is fine and what is wrong with new hero from my perspective after 2 weeks playing both as him and against him.
What is wrong with Gryphon and what is fine with this guy?
1. Feats
First of course his feats, especially his tier 2 and 3, healing and crossbow damage is fine but only when you playing competetive,where you have single pick and you don't face 4 gryphons against you who are constantly healing themselves. Even with sigle pick, i hope we will get it someday, the real joke is activation time of this tier 2 and 3 feats. For tier 2 it's less then 600ms and tier 3 less then 500ms, and that make it possible to use crossbow after heavy parry to confirm hit.
2. Dodge attack
His dodge attack is fast, but this is fine. The real problem is properties of this move. I've seen it many times playing against as well as gryphon that versus charged bashes like
warden, warmonger, centurion, hitokiri, if you use dodge attack to avoid level one bash and your enemy keep charging it, you will also avoid level three of this bash, this leads to really hard matchups with gryphon, because you have to feint bash to bait dodge, and all you get is heavy parry.
3. Kick mix-up
Kick mix-up is his main tool to guarantee damage. 500ms speed is good, because it is hard to react to this so you have to make read, as the game should be.
The real problem is heave folllow up, damage is fine, 28 is a lot, but still fine. But speed of this attack? that's a real joke 533ms dealing 28 damage. All moves that are currently in the game and guarantee high damage numbers by some form of bash or crowdcontroll are not faster that 800ms, but this guy? he hit's you for 28 damage in just 533ms.
4.Shove
Shove is almost fine, despite that you can't punish it if you don't have dodge attack or you are not able to chain into your bash after dodge, making it the most safe move in the game to use againt heroes who don't have side dodge bash nor dodge attack. Why? Because even if you dodge shove, our man of steel is still able to do follow up light, makes you guesing after avoid shove, will he throw light and my gb will bounce or not.
5. Hit boxes
His hit boxes are huge. His finisher side heave could be the biggest non zone attack aoe move in the game. But this is fine, just look at his weapon.

To sum up this, i have to say that Gryphon at this point is tier S in all game modes, but this is my perspective. Let me know what you think is wrong and fine with Holden Cross

[Knight_Raime]

1) His crossbow is a problem because it's a 50hp swing just for him (30 damage, 20 heal,) that can heal multiple people and it's fast enough to be done on a heavy parry. His unique tier 2 is a problem because it's a low ish cool down 20 hp heal in a fairly large area that can't be stopped. His unique 1 is fine and his unique 4 is a bit absurd but isn't as bad as his 2 and 3.

2) This is a thing that most dodge attacks can do. They usually delay the input to accomplish this. If this is deemed a problem on Gryphon we also have to address it with other dodge attacks. As is the only good thing going for it is the fact that it's a heavy. Meaning even though it's a reactable 600ms dodge attack that can't be feinted the punishment for it is rather low.

3) Valk's sweep is similar. it's only 100ms slower for 2 less damage. So I don't particularly agree. Especially considering that his mix up is only the inverse of a few others. So the damage profile makes sense even if the bash reward itself is higher than most.

4) I mean. Valk can soft feint a heavy opener into a bash that cannot be punished without a dodge attack because she can chuck a light or heavy after a whiff. Both bashes are reactable. It's not a hard read after his bash regardless since it's either a 500ms light or an 800ms heavy. Both are more than reactable.


Only actual problem with Gryphon undoubtably is his feats. we "could" lower the damage reward on his kick to 26 but any lower and the risk/reward of using it won't be worth it due to the average damage of gb punishes. But I don't think it's needed. If we were to tone down damage from anywhere i'd probably do it to his finisher heavies. And potentially slightly reducing the I frames on his dodge. But again I don't think it's needed.

[FAT_GUTS]

New hero arrived and as always bring chaos into solo queue dominion matches. A want to point out what is fine and what is wrong with new hero from my perspective after 2 weeks playing both as him and against him.
What is wrong with Gryphon and what is fine with this guy?
1. Feats
First of course his feats, especially his tier 2 and 3, healing and crossbow damage is fine but only when you playing competetive,where you have single pick and you don't face 4 gryphons against you who are constantly healing themselves. Even with sigle pick, i hope we will get it someday, the real joke is activation time of this tier 2 and 3 feats. For tier 2 it's less then 600ms and tier 3 less then 500ms, and that make it possible to use crossbow after heavy parry to confirm hit.
2. Dodge attack
His dodge attack is fast, but this is fine. The real problem is properties of this move. I've seen it many times playing against as well as gryphon that versus charged bashes like
warden, warmonger, centurion, hitokiri, if you use dodge attack to avoid level one bash and your enemy keep charging it, you will also avoid level three of this bash, this leads to really hard matchups with gryphon, because you have to feint bash to bait dodge, and all you get is heavy parry.
3. Kick mix-up
Kick mix-up is his main tool to guarantee damage. 500ms speed is good, because it is hard to react to this so you have to make read, as the game should be.
The real problem is heave folllow up, damage is fine, 28 is a lot, but still fine. But speed of this attack? that's a real joke 533ms dealing 28 damage. All moves that are currently in the game and guarantee high damage numbers by some form of bash or crowdcontroll are not faster that 800ms, but this guy? he hit's you for 28 damage in just 533ms.
4.Shove
Shove is almost fine, despite that you can't punish it if you don't have dodge attack or you are not able to chain into your bash after dodge, making it the most safe move in the game to use againt heroes who don't have side dodge bash nor dodge attack. Why? Because even if you dodge shove, our man of steel is still able to do follow up light, makes you guesing after avoid shove, will he throw light and my gb will bounce or not.
5. Hit boxes
His hit boxes are huge. His finisher side heave could be the biggest non zone attack aoe move in the game. But this is fine, just look at his weapon.

To sum up this, i have to say that Gryphon at this point is tier S in all game modes, but this is my perspective. Let me know what you think is wrong and fine with Holden Cross

I agree with all the points. ATM Graphon is very good Hero for duels and best for Dominions etc. ...

Mostly matches VS 2 or more Gryphons I disconnect while loading map or in 2-3 minutes of play. I rather wait till nerf. I like quality matches and Gryphons are destroying it.

[FAT_GUTS]

1) His crossbow is a problem because it's a 50hp swing just for him (30 damage, 20 heal,) that can heal multiple people and it's fast enough to be done on a heavy parry. His unique tier 2 is a problem because it's a low ish cool down 20 hp heal in a fairly large area that can't be stopped. His unique 1 is fine and his unique 4 is a bit absurd but isn't as bad as his 2 and 3.

2) This is a thing that most dodge attacks can do. They usually delay the input to accomplish this. If this is deemed a problem on Gryphon we also have to address it with other dodge attacks. As is the only good thing going for it is the fact that it's a heavy. Meaning even though it's a reactable 600ms dodge attack that can't be feinted the punishment for it is rather low.

3) Valk's sweep is similar. it's only 100ms slower for 2 less damage. So I don't particularly agree. Especially considering that his mix up is only the inverse of a few others. So the damage profile makes sense even if the bash reward itself is higher than most.

4) I mean. Valk can soft feint a heavy opener into a bash that cannot be punished without a dodge attack because she can chuck a light or heavy after a whiff. Both bashes are reactable. It's not a hard read after his bash regardless since it's either a 500ms light or an 800ms heavy. Both are more than reactable.


Only actual problem with Gryphon undoubtably is his feats. we "could" lower the damage reward on his kick to 26 but any lower and the risk/reward of using it won't be worth it due to the average damage of gb punishes. But I don't think it's needed. If we were to tone down damage from anywhere i'd probably do it to his finisher heavies. And potentially slightly reducing the I frames on his dodge. But again I don't think it's needed.

As main Valk I think compare it with her Sweep is NOT right. You do not need to dodge it, just move backward and sweep misses. Many skilled players know it and just moving backward is enought. It is known bug from day 1.

[FAT_GUTS]

I just found out that Gryphons recovery time of light attack is much shorter than Nobushis attack! From match I saw that first Gryphon does an light attack while second Gryphon (opponent) triggers dodge attack. The first Gryphon misses but still be able to block the dodge attack! Crazy. For exmaple as Nobushi this is not possible. Gryphons dodge attack has guarantee hit when Nobushi performs an light attack. It would be interesting to see how the remaining Heroes can stand against the Gryphons dodge attack.

[Gaser.]

As main Valk I think compare it with her Sweep is NOT right. You do not need to dodge it, just move backward and sweep misses. Many skilled players know it and just moving backward is enought. It is known bug from day 1.

-Bash combo finisher

-Bash gives a heavy if hit


It is the excat same Idea as valk.

[Gaser.]

I agree with all the points. ATM Graphon is very good Hero for duels and best for Dominions etc. ...

Mostly matches VS 2 or more Gryphons I disconnect while loading map or in 2-3 minutes of play. I rather wait till nerf. I like quality matches and Gryphons are destroying it.

It wont help you get better aginst the hero, not to mention his only issue in 4v4 are his feats, which basically counts for a lot heroes in this game.

[FAT_GUTS]

It wont help you get better aginst the hero, not to mention his only issue in 4v4 are his feats, which basically counts for a lot heroes in this game.

Gryphons issue is not only his feats. From the game: I stood alone opposite the enemy while my teammate Gryphon do a "super fast leap attack" for over maybe 30 meters. This move is totally broken and the Gryphon "jump" over long distance in circa 100km/h. I know this game is a fantasy but this is broken. Ubisoft developers neglected testing.

Many players disconnect because of Gryphons. It is fault of Ubisoft, not the players. For Honor will be dead if the Devs will continue this way.

[Knight_Raime]

As main Valk I think compare it with her Sweep is NOT right. You do not need to dodge it, just move backward and sweep misses. Many skilled players know it and just moving backward is enought. It is known bug from day 1.

Both have finisher bash based mix ups. Both have shortcuts to said finisher. It's comparable mechanically. Also back walking into back dodge only works if you back walk the entire time. If you get hit by a light or heavy or are in a block stun of heavy you can't. Also why would they do that when they can just read and punish instead?

[Gaser.]

Gryphons issue is not only his feats. From the game: I stood alone opposite the enemy while my teammate Gryphon do a "super fast leap attack" for over maybe 30 meters. This move is totally broken and the Gryphon "jump" over long distance in circa 100km/h. I know this game is a fantasy but this is broken. Ubisoft developers neglected testing.

Many players disconnect because of Gryphons. It is fault of Ubisoft, not the players. For Honor will be dead if the Devs will continue this way.

Its a 500ms top only attack, just keep your guard on the top side and you just shut the entire thing down, given more by the fact that his foward dodge heavy cant be feinted lol.

You basically complain about every hero in the game that has a 500ms forward dodge attack.

Not really hard to counter that.