Gryphon kick, dodge and chase needs to be fixed! | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

I think the Gryphon kick is harder to dodge in compare to Nobushi kick. You can test it in Practice and do your own compare. Even Centurion kick is straight and can be dodged much easily. Gryphon kick is crazy fast.

The neutral showe is faster than 600ms. The biggest problem is that it is most safe move because you can not block it or parry. Every neutral unblockables should not be used to spam the enemy to death. These moves should be used to get throught the "well-blocking" player.

Dodge attack is much fatser then Kenseis. The Kensei movement is fluent and the mark is visible much longer. The Kensei dodge attack can be blocked sometimes (depends on Heroes recovery time after attack for example). The Gryphon attack movement is terrible. If you have a friends, test this situation: Place Gryphon in between of two enemies. When the Gryphon starts doing dodge attack and switching target between both players, his animation will be like speed-hack. I do not know if it is because of frame skipping but it is not normal. The dodge attack is fast and this movement bug is proof.

I see you do not understand what I was to tell about running flip attack. My point was not about reactability. My point was about the speed / distance the Hero leap over. If you compare sprinting speed (for example 25km/h) and forward dash attack (3/4 times faster) you will get circa 100km/h of running speed. This bug is well visible if the Gryphon is chasing you. Just try it with your friend. Warmonger has the same bug. But Gryphons looks much more terrible because of "less frames in animation".

1) well...yeah it's harder to dodge because it's faster. it's 500ms compared to nobushi's 566ms. Centurion's kick is 500ms but is telegraphed with a dodge forward and can earliest comes out 300ms into the dodge. None of this debunks my response to you. You said it has good tracking. Speed has nothing to do with tracking.

2) No, Neutral shove is 600ms. This has been frame checked. So by your logic Tiandi's palm, and Glad's toe stab and Jorm's neutral bash are also problems because they're neutral bashes?

3) Again, no. They are the same speed. It's been frame checked. Gryphon's dodge attack is literally JJ's animation for dodge attack just sped up since JJ's is slower. Sounds like you just have a problem with the animation itself and are looking to blame something else. What you're describing is what happens when you properly target swap mid attack. The animation can look wonky if it's a 600ms or faster dodge attack.

4) How far it travels isn't really important when it's reactable. As long as you're blocking in his direction when the gank is being setup it'll be easy to block regardless of how far he is from you.

None of your responses to my points actually debunk my statements. You just stated incorrect info twice and moved the discussion to feeling related things instead of balance talk. So unless you have anything that can actually counter my points from my initial post here i'm just going to not bother with another response. I really only felt compelled to post here in the first place because of false information being spread.

[Knight_Raime]

Pretty sure he is not on Xbox, I checked this accounts name on tracker and it’s a Pc Account.

https://tracker.gg/for-honor/profile/uplay/FAT_GUTS/pvp

Around 260 hours of playtime and most reps on Goki and Valk.

Barely any reps or non on other heroes.

Tho he maybe could have multiple accounts, that you got to ask himself.

Not surprising. The guy's main complaint is a neutral bash/bash moves in general. Which do screw Goki pretty hard. So if nothing else the frustration is understandable.
Valk I see get picked often for lower tier players because of how spam friendly she can be against other low skilled players. Has access to 400ms lights, a bash that needs a dodge attack to be punished and her sweep which can't be GBed unless you make a read. Considering the second biggest complaint from this guy is dodge attacks it makes sense. Her offense gets stifled by them since her moves don't have undodgable properties or decent hitboxes.

Kinda just sounds like this guy is relatively ignorant of the game and matchups and is seeking to blame the new hero for their pain points on where they struggle. But I could just be reading into it too deeply.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Not surprising. The guy's main complaint is a neutral bash/bash moves in general. Which do screw Goki pretty hard. So if nothing else the frustration is understandable.
Valk I see get picked often for lower tier players because of how spam friendly she can be against other low skilled players. Has access to 400ms lights, a bash that needs a dodge attack to be punished and her sweep which can't be GBed unless you make a read. Considering the second biggest complaint from this guy is dodge attacks it makes sense. Her offense gets stifled by them since her moves don't have undodgable properties or decent hitboxes.

Kinda just sounds like this guy is relatively ignorant of the game and matchups and is seeking to blame the new hero for their pain points on where they struggle. But I could just be reading into it too deeply.

I started playing Goki, and while I am not that good with him, I would not say Gryphon is a really problematic matchup for him. Of course, if you are just standing there and plane on just turtling with ha lights, that won't cut it.

In team modes (in pug casual), Goki is a terrifying hero who has insane team fight capabilities, however, in noobs' hands, he will keep feeding revenge and hitting the opponents pretty badly. Also, since Shugoki can just ignore stuff with hyperarmor, most of them are pretty terrible with actually playing attention to the foe. They can get away with that on Pk. They can not on Gryphon.

It really feels like an argument with a very dumb child who can not understand that 2+2=4

[Gaser.]

Not surprising. The guy's main complaint is a neutral bash/bash moves in general. Which do screw Goki pretty hard. So if nothing else the frustration is understandable.
Valk I see get picked often for lower tier players because of how spam friendly she can be against other low skilled players. Has access to 400ms lights, a bash that needs a dodge attack to be punished and her sweep which can't be GBed unless you make a read. Considering the second biggest complaint from this guy is dodge attacks it makes sense. Her offense gets stifled by them since her moves don't have undodgable properties or decent hitboxes.

Kinda just sounds like this guy is relatively ignorant of the game and matchups and is seeking to blame the new hero for their pain points on where they struggle. But I could just be reading into it too deeply.

I kinda just find it amusing that he is complaining about gryphons kick mix up which is basically nothing other then valk sweep.

A bash that guarantees a follow up heavy only difference between these two are.

Gryphons is 500ms, gives 28 dmg and can be punished with a GB.

Valk is 600ms, gives 26 dmg and can’t be punished with a GB.

I would say Valk is way better in mix up with her bash cancel while gryphons only real advantage are his double lights and the finisher lights.

[Gaser.]

I started playing Goki, and while I am not that good with him, I would not say Gryphon is a really problematic matchup for him. Of course, if you are just standing there and plane on just turtling with ha lights, that won't cut it.

In team modes (in pug casual), Goki is a terrifying hero who has insane team fight capabilities, however, in noobs' hands, he will keep feeding revenge and hitting the opponents pretty badly. Also, since Shugoki can just ignore stuff with hyperarmor, most of them are pretty terrible with actually playing attention to the foe. They can get away with that on Pk. They can not on Gryphon.

It really feels like an argument with a very dumb child who can not understand that 2+2=4

The problem is with Gokis mix up is that any hero with a forward dodge bash or a neutral one can just option selecting him out of it as soon as they see the heavy. (With the Removing of hyper armour any option select zone will be able to do this as well)

Any hero with a bash that does not require set up is problematic for Goki but that’s more a Goki problem then a bash hero problem.

[Knight_Raime]

I started playing Goki, and while I am not that good with him, I would not say Gryphon is a really problematic matchup for him. Of course, if you are just standing there and plane on just turtling with ha lights, that won't cut it.

In team modes (in pug casual), Goki is a terrifying hero who has insane team fight capabilities, however, in noobs' hands, he will keep feeding revenge and hitting the opponents pretty badly. Also, since Shugoki can just ignore stuff with hyperarmor, most of them are pretty terrible with actually playing attention to the foe. They can get away with that on Pk. They can not on Gryphon.

It really feels like an argument with a very dumb child who can not understand that 2+2=4

I mean it's less that Gryphon is problematic for Goki and rather anyone who has easy access to a bash is ****ty for Goki because the only thing Goki can do to counter a stuff attempt is just uncharged heavy.

I kinda just find it amusing that he is complaining about gryphons kick mix up which is basically nothing other then valk sweep.

A bash that guarantees a follow up heavy only difference between these two are.

Gryphons is 500ms, gives 28 dmg and can be punished with a GB.

Valk is 600ms, gives 26 dmg and can’t be punished with a GB.

I would say Valk is way better in mix up with her bash cancel while gryphons only real advantage are his double lights and the finisher lights.

Well. Both are punishable with a GB. One just requires a read. Which isn't even a particularly hard read to make but still.
It would probably be argued that his situation is better because Gryphon gets to his mix up easier compared to valk.
Then there's the issue that Valk's finisher heavies don't catch most dodges even if they're slightly poor ones. Where as Gryphon's do.
And finally I think because Valk's punish for sweep is a unique one it resets to neutral. Where as Gryphon retains frame advantage.

But yes, they're very similar. Gryphon is just the target because Gryphon is new.

[FAT_GUTS]

I kinda just find it amusing that he is complaining about gryphons kick mix up which is basically nothing other then valk sweep.

A bash that guarantees a follow up heavy only difference between these two are.

Gryphons is 500ms, gives 28 dmg and can be punished with a GB.

Valk is 600ms, gives 26 dmg and can’t be punished with a GB.

I would say Valk is way better in mix up with her bash cancel while gryphons only real advantage are his double lights and the finisher lights.

I had main Valk and the line about her is not true (I mean that punish with a GB).

[WolfenTank]

I really like him

[Gaser.]

I had main Valk and the line about her is not true (I mean that punish with a GB).

You dont get a GB for reacting to it, it requires a read.

[FAT_GUTS]

You dont get a GB for reacting to it, it requires a read.

I read it again and I still stand by what I wrote.