Gone is any calculated and deliberate play at these lower levels of competition, players, who don't yet know how to read effectively, have learnt to abuse this disparity of knowledge/technique from inexperience ... by simply spamming. It's been a huge damage to learning and the variety of tactics. Before, with stamina so intensive, and reading as much easier for novice players, spamming was heavily punished - they'd lose stamina to be vulnerable and their attacks would easily be deflected. Now, however, players at the lower ranks, not the hardcore tier, have learnt spamming is the most logical course as outright, unpredictable aggression...and as this provides results, they have no incentive to learn otherwise. Players respond, too, with copying this exact approach and unless they ever hit a skill ceiling for such practice, assuming they'll ever care to progress as not the hardcore crowd, it's unlikely to change from common practice.
Essentially, they've begun rewarding button mashing and light spam - most people, who are not at 500+ hours, are completely vulnerable to this now and will not care to *learn* to counter this, they'll simply do the same... All duels become simply who is able to *OUTPACE* the mindless aggression...when defensive or methodical play is, well, *accommodated* even a little at this level to be realistic to improve/try.
This is only true on Xbox One and PS4 where the game is capped at 30fps and the older consoles have higher input latency meaning slower reaction times.Originally Posted by JigokuKensei Go to original post
On PC and next gen consoles, spam isn't nearly as problematic.
It's only true for low to low mid levels of players. Spam has always been effective for them and always will be regardless of platform or state of the game.Originally Posted by MrBdur Go to original post
You take two players of similar skill at even above average levels of skill and spam stops working regardless of what platform they're on. Console players are capable of getting away with a little bit more than pc. But the gap really isn't that big of a difference as people make it out to be.
ThisOriginally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
I also see lower-level players die to spam on PC. Whenever I play with a buddy on PC, sometimes I'm very surprised with what I get away with. Even newer players on PC die to stuff that would be considered very-easily counterable.
It doesn't make much sense to talk about a problem with a certain group of people in a game in regards to skill. Yes, lower-level people will die to spam and will use spam. They'll eventually get better if they learn to counter that stuff.
But, guess what: Better players will shut down mindless spam pretty easily. I see it even on old gen consoles. If you spam lights, better players will dodge those chains and counter, or even better, parry those lights. Bad players will eventually figure out, "Oh, he's parrying all my lights, I probably need to feint or throw some heavies instead."
Yes, attacking is encouraged. There are still ways to counter enemies attacks. Before, nobody could attack without being punished for it. At higher levels of play, SMARTER attacking is encouraged as opposed to mindless spam.
To sum up, spam does not work at higher levels. You won't see an Orochi spamming lights if he's playing at a high level, or an Aramusha, or a Conq, or a Glad, or a Nuxia. Those low and mid tier players you're talking about will eventually figure it out. If there is EVER a light spammer in a high level lobby, he/she usually always goes 0-7 or something and is at the bottom of the leaderboard.
I noticed a huge difference between last gen and next, personally, and I played on Xbox One for years. 2500 hours now. Rep 285. Diamond 5. Top 2%?Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
I ain't no pushover in this game and yet I couldn't block, let alone parry, a stupendous number of light attacks. It was a bit silly. I stopped playing until I got a decent PC and then tried it there. Entirely different experience. Suddenly, I could block (AND PARRY) light attacks like they were nothing. Like, it literally made parrying light attacks trivial.
Now, I play on my Xbox Series X and it's almost identical to playing on PC except with way better matchmaking times. I can block and parry lights again without much trouble. Obviously I eat my fair share still. We all do. The point is I can shut spam down properly as other high level players do, but I could not do this on my Xbox One. My personal skill hasn't changed. I just see more and have less input latency now. It genuinely feels like I have more reaction time now.
Maybe I'm imagining all of this, but I do not believe that. I strongly believe that last gen consoles restrict the game, if only slightly.
Still want change the fact that we not balance after this group they have to improve.Originally Posted by JigokuKensei Go to original post
You know, there is no change that would make a bad player win. If you allow unreactable offense, they will try to react to it. If you allow reaction-based defense, they will be turtled to death. If you allow multi-level read based mixups, they will never understand how to counter it. If you allow strong revenge gain with good antigank capabilities, they will feed the fk out of their opponents, get knocked down and die. If we make revenge weak, they will stupidly run into their deaths and be ganked by better players. If we allow team-based combat to be strong, they will definetely want to have an "honorable" 1v1. If objectives play a major role in winning, they will definitely keep headhunting while the enemy team destroys their ram or gate. Bad players are bad players because they will always find an excuse, always flee from the responsibility on the first hardship, and will never improve. This is how ridiculous terms, like "crushing counter spam, dodge attack spam, parry spam" came into existence, and extremely weak mixups like Peacekeeper's current side heavy-dagger cancel are hated by some people.Originally Posted by JigokuKensei Go to original post
Balancing for people who are bad at the game and don't want to change it would be pointless, they would find other ways to lose. When people say "at higher level", they don't refer to a closed class system, they refer to an easily achievable skill level, which can be reached by understanding the game. If you don't want to, pvp fighting games is not your genre.