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Warden main here. First of all, thank you UBI for giving us the chance to test the possible warden changes on the recent TG. They were a step in the right direction. Here is my feedback on it, I hope you can use it somehow:
1. Let's deal with the big elephant in the room first – Removal of back dodge into SB
I for one agree that this HAS TO GO. It is unfair, not fun to abuse as your only viable option in high level play and not fun to go against. How can anyone still be blind and view this as OK is beyond me… So great job on removing that. With the removal of his obviously strongest defensive tool, UBI rightly gave warden some compensations.
2. SB after any attack except another SB (AKA Orange Man) – Personally I think this is a fun change. Warden’s lvl 1 SB is 700ms and should be reactable. What makes it unreactable is the fact that he has a lot of options out of it (is chargeable) and I get the feeling that this kind of is generally more accepted by the FH community than the new gryphon kick or prior’s shield bash who are unreactable due to their speed. Personally, I also prefer the charged type of unreachability instead of the ‘speedy’ one. HOWEVER, with all of this said, warden has 1 very big problem when utilizing this: Stamina. He simply cannot keep up the pressure if when mixing up his attacks with SB. Basically, you are stuck into a similar loop of gameplay now: SB-double light and then play mind games with either a charged SB or heavy finisher. But whatever you do, after that you will not have enough stamina to keep up the pressure and you will have to back off. And now, without a back-dodge SB you are quite vulnerable. This changes really shines when warden gets revenge; than it is really a blast and your options are only then truly usable.
- PROPOSED ADJUSTMENT: Adjust (lower) stamina cost of SB
- GENERAL PROPOSED ADJUSTMENT: Remove the stamina stagger and stamina drain from ALL unblockable moves except maybe Jorm
3. Improved trajectory of attacks – Oh man; now this is a brilliant change. Love it. Especially the undodgeable zone; no more ballerina dancing around the warden. However, I find the following very weird; It is obvious that the new warden’s zone was undodgeable. Why was it not accompanied by the blue trail that normal undodgeable attacks have? This can be counter-informative when fighting against players making you think that you can dodge the zone when in fact you can’t. Also, as with previous adjustments, same problem: Stamina. Zone was great to use, the problem was that you could not use it a lot.
- PROPOSED ADJUSTMENT: Adjust (lower) stamina cost of Zone. Give it the proper blue trail as all undodgeable attacks have. Lower damage slightly to compensate for the stamina reduction.
4. Unblockable heavy finishers on all sides – Great change. The damage increase was nice as it made his finishers very deadly and I loved it, even if they were a bit much. But again a strange issues/inconsistency; why did the side heavy finishers deal more damage than the top one when they were the same speed and the side heavies had better tracking?
- PROPOSED ADJUSTMENT: Lower the damage of side heavy finishers, but keep the superior tracking. Increase the top heavy finishers damage slightly but keep the worse tracking.
MY PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS
With the possibility of a new warden rework, UBI has a chance to fix this hero. On top of what you did, might I suggest the implementation of the following?
- Increase the follow-up side light attacks speed from 600ms to 500ms (not the confirmed double lights, but when you do a side or top heavy light and do a side light from another direction). Why is this still a thing after the CCU is beyond me…
- Give the warden a L-L-L combo where the light finisher is undodgeable. This would certainly improve his mind game and dissuade people from simply backward-dash into doge anytime a warden starts his offense. Also, warden has an atrociously little amount of normal attack chains. This would also drastically improve his swordmaster concept instead of being a shoulder bash boi.
- Remove the confirmed follow-up light after a crushing counter strike; the animation looks silly and is basically pointless; just condense the entire damage into the crushing counterstrike. Also, warden is the only character that has crushing counterstrike from only 1 side; every other hero that has this move can do it from all sides. Why the inconsistency? Either remove it completely or give him crushing counter from all sides.
OVERKILL CHANGE BUT WOULD LOVE IT
- I still remember years ago when warden had that bug where you could soft feint into his side heavy finishers into the opposite side light. It looked so damn good. Would love to see something like that really. Soft feinting from a side heavy finisher, but to make it a bit more balanced/fair only be able to side feint into either the opposite side or only to a top light, not both.
FINAL WORDS
The TG changes made playing the warden much more fun than before and, even with these gripes I had with him, I had a really good time. In fact, seeing what the warden might be has made me resent what he is ATM even more and I am currently not playing FH until warden is reworked as I am a warden and only warden main; I do not play other characters simply because I love the image/overall look of the warden that much.
Thank you devs for continuing your support of FH. I hope something from this post helps you. And I hope some other heroes like aramusha and shinobi get a similar treatment soon, I rly feel bad for those guys.
Junior Member
- Increase the follow-up side light attacks speed from 600ms to 500ms (not the confirmed double lights, but when you do a side or top heavy light and do a side light from another direction). Why is this still a thing after the CCU is beyond me…
Yeah. Although I think double lights should be left only as a follow-up after shoulder bash. In other instances, it should be regular Left-Left, Right-Right light attacks.
I may be speaking only or mostly about this when it comes to Warden, but that's only because I see it as the most basic, unfair shotycoming that must be fixed in the first place.
Sure, I'd like to see some more of reworks/improvements for Warden, especially if they shifted his kit from shoulder bash to swordplay a bit more (soft feints would be neat), but there are probably lots of different suggestions of all sorts. I'll just advocate for a thing that I am 100% sure is a must do thing.
Junior Member
Junior Member
+Also, warden is the only character that has crushing counterstrike from only 1 side; every other hero that has this move can do it from all sides. Why the inconsistency? Either remove it completely or give him crushing counter from all sides.
Sounds nice.
I was imagining how could they improve his sword mastery besides fixing the basic shortcoming.
Enhanced lights? Would be too similar to WM.
Side dodge attack? A bit similar to WM, "a bit" since the move is quite more common among heroes overall. Although if it would be of different speed and animation, it would be even less similar. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Soft feints? Sounds ok.
All-side crushing counter? Sounds ok too.
And of course, changing some animations to thrust, halfswording, mordhau and pommel strike or adding new moves around these attacks could be a neat addition.
Member
Yeah, I agree, but changing animations into new ones is a bit much to expect from the FH dev team ATM since it is obvious that only a skeleton crew is working on it. The evidence is the new heroes; they have recycled old moves into them which just goes to show how little people is working actively on FH. Personally I don't mind this, and if they have no other options then go for it, but it still shows you that not a lot of active devs are on FH and expecting new animations for warden probably (sadly) won't happen.
Senior Member
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Junior Member
Well, that's a pity.
But hey, at least speeding up his 600 ms light and giving him L-L-L or keeping L-L while making double lights count as one attack or just replacing double lights with normal L-L outside of Vortex won't require new animations. As well as soft feints I think.
Just stumbled upon this video on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/co...e_new_attacks/
The second chain in the L-L-L category looks neat.
I am struggling to keep my expectations low, but I really hope devs will notice and do something about his lights.
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Senior Member
Warden main since Beta. Recently gotten back into the game. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to check out the testing grounds, but I've had some thoughts for a while and I like the changes they've proposed. The major issues for me have always been momentum and stamina, and it seems they've at least looked at the hero's flow. SB from everything means you won't have to struggle out of neutral again every time you do damage. That said, the hero's stamina situation really needs a closer look. It's been a frustration of mine for the longest time, having to step back instead of pressing your advantage because the tank is empty. I think it feels pretty bad because bashes and feints are relatively expensive, but they don't score damage by themselves, so often I find button for button press, my Warden is scoring less damage and often burning more stamina. Feels bad.
I'm glad I'm not the only one, haha.Originally Posted by Justicator Go to original post
Omg, I'm sad I didn't get to try these changes. Undodgeable zone sounds amazing!3. Improved trajectory of attacks – Oh man; now this is a brilliant change. Love it. Especially the undodgeable zone; no more ballerina dancing around the warden.
+1 from me. These additions would be amazing. I think you could implement the undodgeable light as simply a Light Finisher, so all attacks can go to either unblockable heavy finisher or undodgeable light finisher. Like you could zone + light, or heavy + light. That would be sick.- Increase the follow-up side light attacks speed from 600ms to 500ms (not the confirmed double lights, but when you do a side or top heavy light and do a side light from another direction). Why is this still a thing after the CCU is beyond me…
- Give the warden a L-L-L combo where the light finisher is undodgeable. This would certainly improve his mind game and dissuade people from simply backward-dash into doge anytime a warden starts his offense. Also, warden has an atrociously little amount of normal attack chains. This would also drastically improve his swordmaster concept instead of being a shoulder bash boi.
I could never say goodbye to Warden's crushing counter strike. It's the ultimate in NO U. I do, however, agree that the follow-up light is weird. I think it should be a follow up heavy instead, and bump the dmg just a tiny bit. 24 dmg crushing counter with a 12 dmg guaranteed heavy. Then Warden's CCS shtick is, one direction, but it can execute.- Remove the confirmed follow-up light after a crushing counter strike; the animation looks silly and is basically pointless; just condense the entire damage into the crushing counterstrike. Also, warden is the only character that has crushing counterstrike from only 1 side; every other hero that has this move can do it from all sides. Why the inconsistency? Either remove it completely or give him crushing counter from all sides.
The only adjustment I can think of that I'd really like to see is feinting Valiant Breakthrough, because it's unusable outside of chasing or ganking.
