The entire point of the Core Combat Update (CCU) was to prevent players from turtling and turning matches or fights into staring contests. It was designed to create a more aggressive focus to the game, rewarding aggression. Heroes such as Black Prior and Conqueror are not exactly healthy for the game. However, everyone knows this, so I’m not going to go into it.
Let’s talk Gryphon. His entire kit is almost meaningless when he pretty much only has three different moves. The rest of it is filler to make it seem like he’s an in-depth hero that has more to him. It’s about as important as lore and story in some sort of erotica visual novel. No one cares.
Dodge attack > light
This is a combo that is done every now and then, mainly to catch people who actually know how his kick functions. They will read that he will kick after dodge attack, so they pre-emptively dodge to position themselves. Sadly, not for them. A light attack with dodge tracking? Asinine.
Dodge attack > kick > heavy
The bread and butter. If it connects, you just got hit for half your health. Much like Blitzcrank from League of legends, it hardly matters how many hooks he misses, the second he hits one, you’re done.
Light > light > light
The classic. When people start countering your brainless dodge attack by turtling, sink into light spam. I included this solely to include something that wasn’t a dodge attack. I’m a fair person.
His dodge attack is a very safe attack. In fact, it’s more safe than the dodge attack from a, well, dodge attack specialist. Look at Zhanhu – garbage, straight garbage – but Zhanhu’s dodge attack will stop if they get sneezed on. They can also be guardbreaked out of it quite easily. Gryphon could probably be hit with a catapault and he would still continue on. He has so much defensive in one attack it’s a joke.
From what I have gathered, the I-frames on the attack are quite generous, he can’t be hit out of it, and he can’t be guardbreaked. The counter is to either dodge attack it yourself (lmfao) or block/parry it.
Now, while I’m on it, his feats. Add them in tandem, and you have an offensive turtle. He can shut you down, he can deny you, and he can heal back to full health from half with a single feat… not even a t4 feat. His animation time on the attacks are insanely quick. Poor Nobushi has a 40s animation for her heal, but Gryphon can throw out all four of his before she finishes.
One word for Gryphon: Oppressive.
The funny thing is that the rest of his kit is actually fine. If you remove his dodge attack, he would be fine to play against.
I agree with what you say. The dodge attack need some kind of a small change. They can easily remove some of the i-frames or to change his dodge attack to light to be more risky.
For feats i dont like only is the crossbow, they need to make it a little bit slower like all other feats that function the same way.
Originally Posted by GayForShugoki Go to original post
First and foremost, if a hero lacks dodge attacks, he is almost always falls in the trash category. Fighting Gryphon without a dodge attack would not feel like a fair experience, it would feel like beating up someone who can't walk. Basically how it feels like to beat up an Aramusha with a Black Prior.
Gryphon's dodge attack is exactly the same as Kensei's or Shaman's: low guardbreak vulnerability, side heavy, and (this will be the main part of it, please pay attention) unfeintable.
Unfeintable means the following things:
1. Using it from neutral means it is parried. I know you don't parry it yet, just like nobody did parry Peacekeeper's forward dodge heavy during Season 1, but you will parry it 100% from neutral if you play just a bit more. Just like you do with Shaman's side dodge attack.
2. Using it to counter an attack is predictable, a final decision that you must stick to. The only thing I must do to punish it is feinting whatever I was doing, and countering it with whatever I can.
I don't know your feelings, but based on this, it is not safe. It is a fast dodge attack that is considered a heavy, is around Shaman's dodge attack speed, and is parried by anyone who understands how the game works. Check Havok's last video, he basically perfects a Gryphon in a mirrormatch twice in a row, and that one sure as hell loved his dodge attacks.
Your other points:
Dodge attack- light: Well, those people should have guessed they will be dodge attacked (or even reactad if it was a neutral dodge attack). Or if they did not counter the dodge attack, I guess they should have guessed a light is coming their way, and since it is neither 500ms nor enchanced, I don't see a problem here. By the way, there are undodgable lights in the game already, if the light would be dodgable, the entire mixup would be thrash.
Dodge attack- kick: Same as above, you can dodge the kick. And I don't play LOL, I don't know this reference, but in For Honor, it does matter how many kicks you miss. There is a white bar over your Staminabar called Healthbar, which will get lower every time you miss a kick. With how much depends on the hero who guardbroke you, but if you want an avarage, you lose around the same hp as your target would have if your kick would have landed. Which is 28 hp- based on my quick math, that is not half of someone's hp, it is less than a quarter of an assassin's hp.
I won't go into the bs about lightspam. His lights are 500ms and not enchanced, if you can't deal with 500ms standard lights, I don't know what to say. I mean, I do, I would say it, but I respect you enough to not to.
His feats are a bit op. Especially if you want to compare a tier 2's, a tier 3's and a tier 4's collective power to a single tier 3 of one of the weakest heroes. For the sake of the comparsion to be at least a little fair, let's put Smokebomb on the counterbalance (the don't attack me while I am in it, and I get heals from a contested zone feat), and let's put Firemine or whatever there too (which I am sure doesn't need an introduction).
So, you should really hit that training ground a bit.
You didn't even read what I posted. You're just here to defend your skilless new 'main'. No one would more besides the abusers if gryphon lost the dodge attack and the fact it combos it everything.Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
Gryphon's dodge attack has 400ms GB vulnerability just like most other dodge attacks. The reason someone like Zhanhu struggles with his dodge attack actually has nothing to do with his vulnerability. But that it's forced to always come out 400ms into the dodge. This in combination with his link in times after dodge canceling a recovery being as slow as they are means it's quite easy to GB him in start up. Zhanhu also loses I frames once the attack is input. Which I assume is to balance him so he's not constantly dodging every attack after canceling. Just doesn't work out because of the aformentioned problems.
Regardless, I don't see anything oppressive about his dodge attack. You are seemingly aware of how bland and filler the rest of his kit is. yet you take issue with one of the moves that lets him get to the punch line purely because it does that? Confusing. The undodgable light has no value against people who have dodge attacks and very little against those that don't because Gryphon immediately loses FA for it landing and risks a light parry for doing so.
I'm not even going to touch the light spam comment. If his dodge attack was feintable or actually did a good chunk of damage I could understand dialing back the I frames a little. But it's no where near one of the good dodge attacks. It's only remarkable aspect is the hitbox making it a fantastic tool for team fighting. But it's as Goat said. You can't use it from neutral constantly and you can't dodge on red because you'll just get parried.
Most heros who have a dodge attack can just choose to opt out of mid chain offense since most mid chain attacks/chain finisher attacks lack the range or cleave to hit people in a dodge. This isn't some new found power with Gryphon. If you want this issue fixed then take it up with the devs. They're the one that seem to think chain attacks should be disadvantaged.
Ok I understand that is harder to combat him without a dodge attack, but trust me on this one is easier to block or parry his dodge attack after some time, than for example the tiandi or kensei ones. like kensei his gb vuln. is low , so at least for me the correct thing to do is to parry, i can do it with an assassin, im really sure a shugo or lawbro can do it easier. I can even dodge his dodge attack with warlord.
deflects are also so easy on him, just go for top guard when he runs out of options or he thinks you will back dodge cause you dont have much stamina, boom deflect on his top light...dodge when you see blue to the same direction boom deflect against his undodgeable...very predictable at least when average players use him. With the good ones is a matter of dodge and punish with gb or bait him to parries, still he is strong but really not like warden or BP or conqu.
“Gryphon's dodge attack is exactly the same as Kensei's or Shaman's: low guardbreak vulnerability-“
“Low guardbreak vulnerability”? Really?! Are you serious? Have you seen how unpredictable and fast those accursed attacks are?! Try catching a bullet, roughly the same experience! He would be perfectly fine if he didn’t have that attack! Same with kensei! With those attacks, low, mid and even mid high skill games are obliterated by their presence! We live if they let us live! I’m sorry, but that wasn’t in the brochure! Also, I can hit and predict shaman’s attacks. Kenzie and gryphon bring an assault rifle to a knife fight.
Ohhhh wait. My bad, I’m an idiot, I thought you were saying it was easy to guardbreak the dodges, when you were saying the opposite.
But it’s still stupid! I shouldn’t have to obey the whims of an ornery 13 year old to have fun on a game a payed a good amount of money on! An I’m not referring to you, I’m referring to the idiot cocky feelsbad people who play Kensei or gryphon, destroy your family and execute you live on stage in Disney world, and then act good for cheesing a broken character!