Gryphon is really strong | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

The dodge attack does beat the kick, but not as well as an empty dodge, and the undodgeable light should beat the dodge attack (from the top of course, but I don't think anyone who ever played jorm would choose a different side). Of course, there are other things that can happen, but these are the main parts of the mixup, and the dodge attack is quite unoptimal for them.

Pk is stronger than Shinobi, far stronger, but she is still the second weakest hero in 4v4. I just can not imagine anyone failing in everything so badly as her- no team fight, no 1v1 burst, no really useful feats, no gank potential. It is hilarious Warlord is even mentioned along with her.

The third weakest is probably either nobu or ara, but they at least have some team and antiganking potential.

[Knight_Raime]

The dodge attack does beat the kick, but not as well as an empty dodge, and the undodgeable light should beat the dodge attack (from the top of course, but I don't think anyone who ever played jorm would choose a different side). Of course, there are other things that can happen, but these are the main parts of the mixup, and the dodge attack is quite unoptimal for them.

Pk is stronger than Shinobi, far stronger, but she is still the second weakest hero in 4v4. I just can not imagine anyone failing in everything so badly as her- no team fight, no 1v1 burst, no really useful feats, no gank potential. It is hilarious Warlord is even mentioned along with her.

The third weakest is probably either nobu or ara, but they at least have some team and antiganking potential.

If you read my entire response you'd have seen that I pointed out the dodge attack beats everything unoptimally from a damage stand point and that you can beat the dodge attack/deflect attempt by doing the undodgable light already. So this isn't really adding anything if this is meant as a response to me specifically.

Far as weakest heros go I was mainly speaking as general and not just for 4's. I don't wish to drag this discussion away from Gryphon so i'll just list my 3 picks and then not comment further on this stuff specifically.

imo in no order it's Shinobi, Aramusha, and Valk. Pk scrapes by specifically for me because of 3 things. Her sprint speed makes her very good for rotations/evening out outnumbered situations. The fact that bleed does not feed revenge at all, and that her GB triple stab and deep gouge inputs can be delayed input wise to "hold" an opponent in a stun longer which is useful for gank setups. There is a little bit other stuff but yeah.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I read it, and yes, you are right it beats many attacks in the mixup. I think it is mainly good against the guardbreak though, the heavy finisher is not a threat, and the kick is beaten by a simple dodge for a better punish.

Well, it is a race of the crippled, so yes, those heroes are useless as well. Maybe there is no point in arguing who fails harder.

[Knight_Raime]

I read it, and yes, you are right it beats many attacks in the mixup. I think it is mainly good against the guardbreak though, the heavy finisher is not a threat, and the kick is beaten by a simple dodge for a better punish.

Well, it is a race of the crippled, so yes, those heroes are useless as well. Maybe there is no point in arguing who fails harder.

Well yes technically speaking the only thing that's an actual threat is his kick. However the heavy was included purely for the benefit of those who say "zomg gryphon has so many options!!!"