Junior Member
Unfortunately I think Gryphon just made LB obsolete. I know its not the same but alot of people will move over to him especially the LB players and there are also heroes like Shinobi that desperately need a rework much more then LB but they don't even do him instead they touch warden? They will probably just go on ignoring LB for much longer.
Senior Member
Just a quick side note on Warden: he did not just receive a single buff, and despite how it looks, I think he is actually weaker now. Backdodge shoulderbash was one of the strongest duel tools in the games, there is little to no counterplay against it, that is the reason they changed it- in the meantime, the current Warden in 4v4 is weaker than the current Lawbringer.Originally Posted by User1391 Go to original post
Member
I-ModernSpartan
You made some good points, one of the reasons why I love LB is because you need to be patient and clever if you play him, otherwise you going to get killed a lot. Spamming with him is not just a bad idea but also a non-existent one as well, since you can't do that with him. I'm not saying that his counter attacker rule should be taken away, I just want the devs to give him more options (like my original suggestions or at least some of them), so you can adapt to more situations with him more easily.
Member
Member
Senior Member
I post a short idea of mine here if you don't mind. Sorry in advance if my phone makes autocorrects!
1. Spike off of a parry removed. It is cool, but also very toxic.
2. The light riposte doesn't start chains. Considering his new chain options, a blind off of a heavy parry is not healthy.
3. Shove now can be initiated after a zone, any light, or any heavy. It grants a special light with similar animation to the light riposte- it doesn't start chains, but grants frame advantage, similarly to Warmonger and Warlord. Shove gets s small block recovery nerf to allow dodge attacks to punish them (I don't know how much is required, probably something around 700ms).
4. Longarm gets hyperarmor from 400ms. It is already an effective tool after a heavy finisher to punish a preemptive dodge against a shove, this should further reinforce it as a high risk, high reward move.
5. Zone starts chains, and costs 40 stamina (from 60). Obvious qol change.
6. All chained heavies gets hyperarmor from 400ms. Qol change.
I think this would cut back Lawbringer's strong defense a bit, and in return could let him start his offense without throwing out a heavy.
Member
Goat_of_Vermund
Of course I don't mind your suggestions, as I previously said: the more reasonable ideas we can collect to make LB more viable, the better.
You wrote some interesting and logical ideas, some of which would definitely change LB up. If the devs would implement these changes I would probably need some time to get used to LB's new options and play style. Changing the recovery on the Shove (on miss) is a no-no to me (personal opinion), considering that the fast recovery is the only good thing which remains about Shove.
Good ideas altogether, they seem well thought out. It's intriguing to see other people's opinions.
Member
Well your ideas all are nice guys, but how would it be different ? Anybody who play lawbringer for a few match can tell his flaws and his lack of true strenghts (right now)
I don't think that the fact that he is in full armor "should" give him HA, but regarding his kit, if the devs don't want to rebuild it completely, this should be the least they can do.
But I would like it they give him something else, more unique rather than rubbing some HA on it like so many others.
The shove on block, even if it seem a bit broken when I read about it, was a unique defensive feature at least.
Today LB is only has his various parry punish to be qualified as counter attacker but since the said punish damage have been nerfed, this doesn't make him special anymore. Also we barely see the disabler thing. He can stun you all along, right, but not being bothered by stun effects is one of the things I've learned the fastest in the game, I have no problem to parry or CGB LB after stun especially since his attacks are quite telegraphed.
Jormungandr is far more of a disabler.
And every other hero can parry and do quite some damage after it.
So here is my list of ideas to improve lawbringer :
- the long arm. This is the signature move of lawbringer like jorm hammer slash on oos or gryphon kick. It should be something usable without being a master at guessing, and something usefull also.
Eithet make it faster, or let it at 1000ms but add it a huge stamine damage (idk. 50 ?) So that it can be confirmed on wallsplat like shugoki hug, and create a new move that follow up, unblockable, like WL shield bash follow up, but it will be a light to compensate with the stam damage.
With this change player will be able to choose between huge damage+stun with the top heavy, or low damage+stam damage with the long arm. But long arm doesn't confirm a side heavy anymore.
THIS is what a disabler should be able to do. And it will fit perfectly with the impaling charge riposte.
The damage stam only happen on hitting the ground, so if it is interrupted, nothing happen. And a special animation for the light follow up should be a stab with the tip of the poleaxe (for the sake of fashion)
Also and not least : feintable.
- the shove on dodge. Alright, instant HA was a bit over the top. No bashes should have it if not charged. But if you remove it you have to make it faster because between the obvious dodge and the animation, it is just a gb bait/oh yes delay your double top light orochi, bait.
-his combos. Try to imagine berserker without HA. We should create a Z tier for him. But lawbringer basically have the same combo pattern. So he should at least have two lights combo in a game where everybody can throw lights like crazy. This will improve his offense a lot. This additionnal light can be followed up with a shove, and so be baited for a gb.
- HA on the heavy finishers. I can't believe this is not implemented yet in a game where 80% of the roaster have trading capabilities, and the other 19% is so fast that he don't need it. The last 1% being lawbro. And some of these 80% have HA on oponner lol.
Also just keep lawbro on external and zone for most of the heroes is enough to shut it down. Funny than the parry master of the game cannot force other to parry him.
-better hitbox. One of the longest weapon of the game have one of the easiest dodge window.
- give back some damage output ? Honestly I don't find that I do poo poo damage with him, so I let this question to people with more understanding of what is balanced or not, but the fact that they nerfed his damage like three time is a bit disturbing. Or just let down the HA and all the cheese and give him back his former damage on parry punish ?
Also I'm not a lb main, just a guy who tried it and really felt how unfair some matchup are. And LB is fun to play, until you see how the game core mechanic can be used and abused to litteraly shut him down.
I saw someone talking about gryphon, he is a lot of fun, but despite the background, nothing to do with lawbringer, a lot closer to kensei in fact.
Member
This on the other hand is a bit over the top. Are you talking about soft feinting heavies after startup ? i've never seen this in the game but I'm quite new. Who can do that ?Originally Posted by Csodaszarvas_G Go to original post
Member
AbuZnood
Your question is understandable, maybe I wasn't 100% clear when I wrote it down.
No, I meant that LB should feint the striking portion of unblockable heavy finishers into a dodge and from the dodge he can preform a shove if the players wants to do it. This means that the opponent has more options for which he/she needs to ready him/herself. Is it an unblockable or a feint -> gb or a soft-feint -> dodge -> shove? So, the striking portion of the unblockable can turn into a dodge, but to do this LB needs to preform the soft-feint before the striking portion. This means that he can soft-feint FROM the startup (like Kensei or Peacekeeper).
BTW, you wrote some nice suggestions about LB, and your reasoning is also interesting (at least to me). It is also quite nice to see that throughout this thread some opinions are the same. Hopefully the devs will read this and they will consider implementing some of these ideas into the game.
