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  1. #201
    NLxAROSA's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by mckrackin5324 Go to original post
    It's like TD1... the day I soloed the last legendary mission, I was like, now what? Nothing left but to reach a perfect 291 gear score. Not that it mattered at that point.
    It's ok to finish a game and move on.

    I have had great runs for both TD1 (900 hours) and TD2 (700 hours). I'm done for now. I'll be back if there's another expansion (unlikely IMO) or TD3.
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  2. #202
    Corrupt.be's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    This is factually untrue.

    Yes, legendary has a higher chance of dropping items with a higher minimum average. But you can very easily get god-rolled drops on heroic. In fact it might be better to farm on heroic, since the kill-speed will be faster. And with TU12 coming up, between the recalibration station and optimization, you'll want that higher volume of drops to get materials as well.

    This idea that people MUST play on legendary is cancer. By all means, do it if you have a group that's competent, or if you feel comfortable soloing it. But don't tell people it's the only way to get good gear.
    No it's not. If you want to fast track getting max or near max rolls, that is exactly what you should do.

    I've had more maxroll loot since Summit was released (with the targeted loot being a free choice) than I did since WoNY was released. Things I couldn't find for months, just dropped easy peasy in Legendary Summit.

    And that's a sad state of affairs for the game to be in tbh...

    It's fairly logical really when you look at it. You need something specific in a pool of RNG items with high rolls. Do Legendary to maximize the odds of getting higher rolls and combat the RNG with sheer quantity.

    If you want to min/max your build, the quickest route atm is Legendary.
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  3. #203
    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    Based on what? Because I thought people were complaining that there wasn't enough drops in Summit?
    The quality of the drops and rolls of the attributes are clearly best in Legendary summit. All you have to do is play it for a few nights and it becomes very obvious. I only play Legendary weeklies, raids and legendary summit at this point because I have nothing else to play for. Summit Legendary has noticably better rolls. I'm not saying I get a lot of pieces I want, because I don't because of RNG, but I'm constantly dropping God rolled and high rolled items for others in there. The loot very noticeable how much better it is than standard legendary strong holds. I even played a day of Heroic bounties and such to level the last specialization on my 4th character and it felt like normal quality loot compared to Legendary Summit.
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  4. #204
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Corrupt.be Go to original post
    It's fairly logical really when you look at it. You need something specific in a pool of RNG items with high rolls. Do Legendary to maximize the odds of getting higher rolls and combat the RNG with sheer quantity.
    How much of that is Legendary, and how much is the improved targeted loot and directives in the Summit? Because anything that applies to Legendary in Summit also applies to Heroic Summit as well. Even Chicagolongball compared summit to bounties. So I'd be curious to see how you guys do on heroic summit in terms of drops.

    But like I said, it's fine either way. Play on whatever you're more comfortable with. My only real point was to try and cut down on people pushing the idea that legendary is the only way to run. It might be the place to find the best gear if you're already sitting at around 90-95% max already. But it's not the ONLY way.

    Legendary only sets minimum average rolls, not highest potential rolls. Hence my point about volume and ease of acquirement on heroic being potentially better. This is only going to be a more blurred line once the optimization station arrives.

    By all means, if you've got an elite swat team of bad*sses that can farm legendary at breakneck speed, or you're so damn good you can solo it at speed....then more power to you. But for anyone who doesn't already operate at that level, heroic should not be ignored.
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  5. #205
    Oatiecrumble's Avatar Senior Member
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    The game developers have clearly shown that the best and fastest way to get top rolled gear is to group up and do The Summit and have left the rest of the solo players to slog it out the long way doing heroics, we all know that solo legendary is slow and very un-rewarding.

    It's a big fuc* you to the solo player and a big thank you to group play to justify that the devs did not fuc* up with The Summit.

    Dress it up how you like, it is what it is.
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  6. #206
    darkzone.RO's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    The ultimate goal of the game from the business side is to make money. From the players' side it's to have fun.
    OK, but if players don't have fun in game they will stop playing, so you still don't have money. It's bad from both perspectives.


    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    Making money is objective. Having fun is subjective. For myself, I mostly enjoy the gameplay and seeing what new styles of builds are capable of. I don't need perfect gear for that. For others, defeating floor 100 of the summit or all legendary missions....again, you don't NEED perfect max gear for that.
    OK again, I don't need either a perfect god rolled build to complete any activity in game to date. In fact, my PfE build is somewhere at 80% of its potential right now and do the job well. But, if I have that 20% missing stats I could do the job better and I could have more fun.

    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    This is why I say that people who seek perfect gear are not being completely reasonable when they ask for the loot system to be better based on not getting perfect-god-rolled gear. . And I HIGHLY suspect those complaints will evaporate with the Optimization station.
    Maybe, but that optimization station, if it will be implemented in the current state, won't solve the problem due to tremendous amount of materials needed to optimize 1% of an attribute. This is way exaggerated and completely illogic and will make players to leave the game instantly.

    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    But you're right when you say that Ubi/Massive should have done a better job of figuring out how to make these systems improved earlier. The optimization station has been requested almost from the launch of division 2. They could have saved a LOT of grief for players if they'd made a better initial loot system. But they banked on abusing RNG to keep players grinding for a LONG time. Then reset the grind with WONY. Pretty smart from a business perspective.
    I wouldn't say it's smart, I'd rather say it's greedy. They made players to pay for nothing, after all.

    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    But that begs the question: Why are they being generous with loot now and dropping the optimization staiton? IMO the most likely answer is because either Division 2 or WONY is coming to a close soon. And that leads to only one of two outcomes:

    1) They're going to drop another expansion or announce Division 3, meaning a progress reset. In which case letting players max out in a deterministic fashion doesn't hurt anything.

    2) There is literally nothing else coming besides half-assed maintenance mode updates. That's it. Done. No more seasons. No more expansions. No Division 3.

    Youtubers like GameyDaddy seem to think that because of how much money both Division 1 and 2 made, that it's unlikely for Ubi to not be seriously considering the continuation of the franchise. I think that's a fair argument.

    But on the other hand, I could see them cutting Division off, and focusing on cosmetic/season pass revenue with little investment while they funnel resources to other projects.
    It happened in Division 1, now it's just repeating history. My guess is it will be a Division 3 at some point and I expect to be announced after TU 12 release, maybe a month or two later. If so, I won't buy another game from this franchise from day one, I'd rather wait to see what is going on first and then make a decision. They failed to deliver what they've promised twice in a row, I have no reason to believe that third time will be successful, on the contrary, I could bet the new game will be a bigger disaster than the current one. And players will not migrate back to Division 2, like happened with Division 1, for sure
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  7. #207
    Corrupt.be's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    How much of that is Legendary, and how much is the improved targeted loot and directives in the Summit?
    I'm talking about the attribute roll quality when I mention min maxing. Of course the directives contribute, they increase the odds of dropping targeted loot, they improve my odds by literally fighting RNG with quantity of items of a specific brand.

    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    So I'd be curious to see how you guys do on heroic summit in terms of drops.
    Quantity wise it's the same, but the roll quality is worse on average.

    These:

    • Max roll Carbine 7 (with Damage out of Cover rolled to 10% so I can reroll the talent)
    • Max roll FAMAS
    • Max roll AK
    • Max roll Grupo Concussion backpack
    • Near max roll (0.9 off on the CHD) Fenris Obliterate Chest
    • Max roll Spotter Walker chest piece
    • 12% CHD mods (6 of them)
    • Grupo Backpack near max roll Composure (5% CHC, rest max)
    • Maxed out Perfect Class Cannon
    • Max roll Fenris holster
    • Multiple max roll Ceska / Grupo / Providence Holster/Masks
    • Another max roll Contractors Gloves
    • Max rolled MK17 Rifle
    • Almost maxed Ceska Vigilance Backpack
    • Almost maxed Grupo Vigilance Backpack
    • Almost maxed Walker Concussion & Composure backpacks


    ... are some of the things I got since choose-able targeted loot exists in Summit. Without being able to constantly play targeted loot in Legendary, this would've taken me months, not weeks. And in the example of the FAMAS, I also rolled over a 1000 on the crafting table prior to Summit's release.

    At this point I would just prefer having more Legendary content so I wouldn't be forced to play the same content all the time...
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  8. #208
    Originally Posted by Corrupt.be Go to original post
    .

    At this point I would just prefer having more Legendary content so I wouldn't be forced to play the same content all the time...
    I'm with you 100% on this one. I'd love to see ALL the missions and strongholds on Legendary. At very least start with all stongholds. I'd love to play White Oak, Manning Zoo and Tidal Basin on Legendary.
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  9. #209
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by darkzone.RO Go to original post
    OK, but if players don't have fun in game they will stop playing, so you still don't have money. It's bad from both perspectives.
    Fun is subjective. Money is not.

    I'm sorry, but your argument doesn't hold a lot of water here. Mobile games are almost exclusively predicated on the concept of leeching as much money out of players as possible. Targeting whales and super-whales. Why does this even work? Because some people have FUN spending money.

    Granted, Division 2 doesn't have any pay to win aspects to it. But the point I was making is that it's not a good argument to make that "Fun" will be the determining factor for how a game is designed. The developers will make a game THEY think players will like, but then will also be required to make a game the BUSINESS people like.


    Originally Posted by darkzone.RO Go to original post
    Maybe, but that optimization station, if it will be implemented in the current state, won't solve the problem due to tremendous amount of materials needed to optimize 1% of an attribute. This is way exaggerated and completely illogic and will make players to leave the game instantly.
    Why would people leave the game when they're getting a tool they didn't have before. The Optimization station isn't taking anything OUT of the game.

    Now...maybe some players who have already left won't find Optimization attractive enough to return. That's a distinct possibility. But I think it's not fair to leap to conclusions about how much work it will take until we see what the live version of it actually is. I know that right now on the PTS the amount of materials is ridiculous, so it's likely to be the same way in the live version. But we still have to wait and see.


    Originally Posted by darkzone.RO Go to original post
    I wouldn't say it's smart, I'd rather say it's greedy. They made players to pay for nothing, after all.
    Strongly disagree.

    We paid to get more content and a different system of loot. We got seasons, new gear sets and brands. New exotics. New cosmetics. New events.

    While I agree that Massive/Ubi could and SHOULD have done more, it's disingenuous and inaccurate to claim that we got nothing.

    Originally Posted by darkzone.RO Go to original post
    It happened in Division 1, now it's just repeating history. My guess is it will be a Division 3 at some point and I expect to be announced after TU 12 release, maybe a month or two later. If so, I won't buy another game from this franchise from day one, I'd rather wait to see what is going on first and then make a decision. They failed to deliver what they've promised twice in a row, I have no reason to believe that third time will be successful, on the contrary, I could bet the new game will be a bigger disaster than the current one. And players will not migrate back to Division 2, like happened with Division 1, for sure
    This is hard to say.

    I don't know if you've been keeping up with what's been happning in the upper management of Ubisoft over the past year or so. A lot of the idiot people in charge have been removed or retired due to scandal. It's entirely possible that if there is a Division 3, there could be a VERY different approach to design and marketing. The entire philosophy of the game could be different.

    Then again, if it's still Massive/Redstorm, we could just see more of the same. Either way I agree with you 100% that I won't buy the game at launch. I'll wait for see how things turn out.
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  10. #210
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Corrupt.be Go to original post
    IQuantity wise it's the same, but the roll quality is worse on average.

    ... are some of the things I got since choose-able targeted loot exists in Summit. Without being able to constantly play targeted loot in Legendary, this would've taken me months, not weeks. And in the example of the FAMAS, I also rolled over a 1000 on the crafting table prior to Summit's release.

    At this point I would just prefer having more Legendary content so I wouldn't be forced to play the same content all the time...
    The point I've been trying to make(maybe badly) is that if you're getting good loot on Legendary Summit at a higher average quality, then it should also be possible to trade higher average quality for higher average quantity by playing on heroic.

    In other words, you're going to be able to kill things faster on heroic, which will result in overall more drops over time than you would get in Legendary. More of those drops will be poorer, but some of them will still be very good, or even god-rolled.

    So if a person is not at the point where they're comfortable playing on Legendary, or aren't geared enough to do so, or don't have good enough friends/team to do it.....then it's still an option.

    Is Legendary still going to be better if you can farm it efficiently? Of course! But not everyone can do so. And in some of those cases, it might be better to focus on the speed and efficiency of spamming heroic Summit instead.

    -------------------


    Anyway, I totally agree about there being more legendary content. Honestly I wish all missions and even Classified missions scaled up to legendary. And I wish they'd add the targeted loot from Summit to EVERY activity.
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