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  1. #1

    Making Specializations, Special

    Bear with me, this will be long. I want to make Specializations more relevant, and encourage folks to fill roles. Just a starting point of discussion, as I may have overlooked some things [plan to make a formal Suggestion after some discussion and refinement]. Also not 100% on what to do with Talents for Chest/Backpack & Weapons - I think there should be some shuffling/adjustment, plus weighting changes for RNG [certain talents more likely to drop on certain weapons/brands], maybe some removals/additions too [follow up post, eventually]. I know some of the suggestions will ruffle some feathers, so I’ll get the big two out of the way first.

    First move: Remove the WD Wheel [yes, you just lost 15% WD, but you’re gaining Talents! - attachments added to normal pool once you've fully unlocked Spec it used to be paired with]

    Instead, you’ll have an OR option for up to 4 additional Talents [of 8 available, in pairs.. still have Chest/Backpack/Weapon Talents]

    Second: Crusader shield is no longer a universal skill

    The Crusader Shield is now auto-procc’d for each Specialization Weapon - so anytime you pull out your spec weapon, you have some extra protection. The Firewall “Crusader Shield”, now belongs to Survivalist [I’ve slightly changed some roles]. These are the only two ways to have a Crusader Shield now.

    **These are all geared for PvE, some might need PvP modifiers**

    Sharpshooter: Tac-50
    “Special Skill”: Placed Cover [Fixed Placement Bulwark Shield] or keep Recon Drone?
    “Special Ability”: Penetrate [10% of MMR damage ignores Armor/Plates]
    “Shared Bonus”: 15% Headshot Damage
    Sidearm: Mozambique Special
    Grenade: Flash
    Build Boost: 10% Damage to Armor

    Talents:
    Overwatch OR Leadership
    Concussion OR Entrench
    Optimized [15% WH] or Distance [25% Optimal Range]
    Rifleman or Ranger

    Demolitionist: Grenade Launcher [Boom/QCQ]
    “Special Skill”: Mortar Turret
    “Special Ability”: Chef's Kiss [15% Explosive Damage, +To Order]
    “Shared Bonus”: Shrug off an Explosion [60s cooldown, reset with Spec Weapon DMG]
    Sidearm: Orbit
    Grenade: Cluster
    Build Boost: Armor on Kill [10%]

    Talents:
    Explosive Delivery OR Mad Bomber
    Clutch OR Gunslinger
    Cannon OR Protected Deploy
    Allegro [10% ROF] OR Greased [25% Swap Speed]

    Survivalist: Crossbow [now Tank/Support]
    “Special Skill”: “Firewall” Crusader Shield
    “Special Ability”: 50% Bonus Armor on Armor Break [like weaker non-shared Tardigrade, with no reset mechanic]
    “Shared Bonus”: Protected Reload [25%]
    Sidearm: perfect Preservation Tactical 1911
    Grenade: Foam
    Build Boost: 10% Damage to Targets Out of Cover

    Talents:
    Protector OR Vanguard
    Efficient OR Energize
    Stop, Drop & Roll OR Wascally
    Preservation OR Blacksmith

    Technician: Hunter EMP/Disrupt [Does Vile Dot Damage]? or just fix the Rocket Launcher
    “Special Skill”: Artificer Hive
    “Special Ability”: Mr. Wizard [+1Skill Tier]
    “Shared Bonus”: Immune to Disrupt/Shock w/in 7m of a skill [or Technician]
    Sidearm: perfect In Sync X-45
    Grenade: EMP
    Build Boost: 15% Damage to Health & Skills/Electronics

    Talents:
    Tag Team OR Skilled
    Overclock OR Tamper Proof
    Spike OR Reformation
    Terminate OR Rooted

    Gunner: Mini-Gun [now LMG/Support]
    “Special Skill”: Support Station [Healing OR Special Ammo]
    “Special Ability”: Patience [3% aRegen while in Cover, due to gear/brand changes/additions]
    “Shared Bonus”: improved Overwhelm ["from all sources", like Opportunist]
    Sidearm: Diceros Special
    Grenade: Frag
    Build Boost: Stagger [shooting enemies reduces their movement speed by 20%]

    Talents:
    Braced OR Composure
    Bloodsucker OR Double Duty [share 10% Ammo on reload from empty]
    Steady Handed OR Frenzy
    Overflowing OR Extra [20% Mag Capacity]

    Firewall: Flamethrower [now Status]
    “Special Skill”: Banshee Pulse
    “Special Ability”: 10m Fire on Armor Break
    “Shared Bonus”: 10% Damage to Status Effected Enemies
    Sidearm: Firestarter
    Grenade: Incendiary
    Build Boost: 20% Hazard Protection

    Talents:
    Trauma OR Creeping Death
    Wicked OR Galvanized

    Reassigned OR Vindictive
    Perpetuation OR Centered
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  2. #2
    I like your thinking.

    I'd settle for Rooted to exist and rocket launchers to not kill the user.
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  3. #3
    moesuvious's Avatar Senior Member
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    Great write up!! I wish i cared about anything this much!!

    The talent I miss the most from TD1 is Relentless. It made being squishy so much more tolerable.
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  4. #4
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LateNiteDelight Go to original post
    Also not 100% on what to do with Talents for Chest/Backpack & Weapons - I think there should be some shuffling/adjustment, plus weighting changes for RNG [certain talents more likely to drop on certain weapons/brands], maybe some removals/additions too [follow up post, eventually].
    Are you spitballing for the current game, or some hypothetical Diision 3? This game does not need another major upheaval in gear.

    First move: Remove the WD Wheel [yes, you just lost 15% WD, but you’re gaining Talents! - attachments added to normal pool once you've fully unlocked Spec it used to be paired with]
    That move alone would require that they roll back every single recalibration involving weapon damage.

    Also, I suspect build diversity would be reduced too much by restricting certain talents and skills to specific specializations. However, I'd be fine dumping the specialization weapon and replacing it with a "special ability" or other signature-skill-in-all-but-name.
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  5. #5
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    One thing that's upsetting about them is that they all carry lethal weapons. Imagine if Tacticians could hack Warhounds and turn them against the black tusk, instead of shooting them with rockets.
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  6. #6
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    One thing that's upsetting about them is that they all carry lethal weapons. Imagine if Tacticians could hack Warhounds and turn them against the black tusk, instead of shooting them with rockets.
    Yeah, that's why I'd prefer dumping the specialization weapon. Lean into the idea of unique SHD tech that requires agents to have specialized training in. Gunners get a replenishing ammo box, technicians get the ability to hack opposing tech, survivalists get the old healing box, sharpshooters get a pulse variant that increases group accuracy for a limited time etc.
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  7. #7
    they could do quite a lot of small things to make specializations more specialised.

    they could give demolitionists the old to order talent allowing them to cook grenades.being an explosives expert andall youd think this would be like grenades 101...

    they could give technician immunity to EMP / hacking. its incredibly frustrating when a t6 skill build is completely shutdown by a single jammer or your skill is hacked in 2 seconds..
    could maybe tie it to a pseudo skill tier 7 and make use of that +1 passive skill tier they get...

    give sharpshooters an actually decent signature weapon and maybe atalent to reduce aggression from a distance. If im sniping i use a nemesis because it blows the signature rifle away which kinda means you never use it.

    never really made much use of the other specs but thats partly because outside of the sig weapon theyre just too alike that it doesnt matter. i just run demolitionist because i like the grencade launche against warhounds and mini tanks.r and its a pretty easy one to get ammo for.

    skill tiers need some love in general a single emp should nottotally shut down a tier 6 skill build thats just a cheap... especially when there are no comparable mechanics that cripple red or blue builds.. (burn / blind can mess a red guys aim i guess but thats usually waht 2-3 seconds... no where near comparable to how much a single emp can totally cripplea yellow build for an entire fire fight..

    i have said before emp shouls have varying effects based on proximity.. so a skill tier 1 guy might get jammed at 50m range.. but a tier 3 would still be able to use skills at 25m. and a tier 6 could maybe work within 10m or totally immune with overcharge or the pseudo tier 7 i mentioned above.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Are you spitballing for the current game, or some hypothetical Diision 3? This game does not need another major upheaval in gear.

    That move alone would require that they roll back every single recalibration involving weapon damage.

    Also, I suspect build diversity would be reduced too much by restricting certain talents and skills to specific specializations. However, I'd be fine dumping the specialization weapon and replacing it with a "special ability" or other signature-skill-in-all-but-name.
    I frequently change around the three weapons I select for Spec, and forget. I end up running with a gun that is missing the 15% and do just fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Plus, with certain Specs, they're getting that back via the other changes [and others, like Tanks, should have to trade DPS for survives]. This seems like a non-issue.

    The bigger issue, as you highlighted, is the potential upheaval. I honestly think it would help build diversity though, as it helps Sharpshooters hit harder, Tanks be tankier, Support actually be helpful, Technicians actually be better with skills, etc. Right now MMRs are a liability against Chunga and folks just use Sharpshooter for the WH. Demo is just a convoluted mess. Survival is both status & PfE? Gunner is only used for AoK and ammo [plus the pouch if you like belt LMGs], but has a Status skill? Technician is just there for the +Skill & Dog help [spotter laser possibly]. Firewall is for the shield, and?

    Maybe your cynicism is more realistic though. I doubt this is happening [so maybe that makes this a TD3 suggestion]. I also like the idea of getting rid of Spec weapons, but that definitely seems like a TD3 item.
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  9. #9
    Edgemoor's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    One thing that's upsetting about them is that they all carry lethal weapons. Imagine if Tacticians could hack Warhounds and turn them against the black tusk, instead of shooting them with rockets.
    I agree, but it seems to go against the ethos of the game currently. The devs seem to steer clear of having NPC's have clear and easy access to vulnerability or weakness. Everything that is a weakspot needs some measure of shooting skill to exploit. They've gone down the path of making many NPC's immune to various effects, something that is very different from The Division and the Division 2 in it's first year.

    By making the NPC's so invincible they appear to have lost out on the actual fun of the game. I dropped the difficulty of the game down to normal yesterday to blow through the remaining manhunt targets I had left. I had a blast and enjoyed the game more than I had in a long time. It was refreshing to be able to actual play with the builds I had and feel effective.
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  10. #10
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LateNiteDelight Go to original post
    I frequently change around the three weapons I select for Spec, and forget. I end up running with a gun that is missing the 15% and do just fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Plus, with certain Specs, they're getting that back via the other changes [and others, like Tanks, should have to trade DPS for survives]. This seems like a non-issue.
    Not so much for the loss of weapon damage per se, but more for the impact on people who had recalibrated red to yellow or blue.

    The bigger issue, as you highlighted, is the potential upheaval. I honestly think it would help build diversity though, as it helps Sharpshooters hit harder, Tanks be tankier, Support actually be helpful, Technicians actually be better with skills, etc. Right now MMRs are a liability against Chunga and folks just use Sharpshooter for the WH. Demo is just a convoluted mess. Survival is both status & PfE? Gunner is only used for AoK and ammo [plus the pouch if you like belt LMGs], but has a Status skill? Technician is just there for the +Skill & Dog help [spotter laser possibly]. Firewall is for the shield, and?
    I agree with rationalizing the specialization bonuses to better fit a role. But not restricting access to so many talents/abilities.

    Maybe your cynicism is more realistic though. I doubt this is happening [so maybe that makes this a TD3 suggestion]. I also like the idea of getting rid of Spec weapons, but that definitely seems like a TD3 item.
    Spec weapons have niche uses, but they're not ubiquitous enough that replacing them with an ability/unique talent would be any great loss.
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