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  1. #1

    Deflect/superior dodge inequalities

    It is absolutely ridiculous how wide the power gap is between deflects:

    Berserker: gets a guardbreak safely no matter what.

    Gladiator: gets a pin, and potentially a heavy/max ground punish

    Valkyrie: gets a high damage Shoulderpin and a free light attack. Pins the target. Always guaranteed, stops chains.

    VS.

    Pk and orochi gets bad damage while not stopping hyperarmor. Nuxia may not even get guaranteed damage.

    This should really be fixed (what a coincidence, the already strong heroes have the stronger deflect).
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  2. #2
    NO.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by HiTeHa Go to original post
    NO.
    Surprisingly intelligent answer, at least for your avarage ones. You should really stick to one word posts.
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  4. #4
    Zerk's is indeed strong. Glad's is in theory since pins reset hitstun but considering you're more likely deflecting combo attacks and HA being far more present on those his pin doesn't work. Valk's IIRC only guarantees a follow up light on assassins. With standard guard I think it is blockable.
    Orochi's deflect is actually fine now. Wasn't at the start of CCU but it got it's numbers adjusted so it's good now considering it's mix up utility.

    The only two deflects I can consider objectively weak are Nuxia's and shaolin's. Nuxia's was "fine" pre ccu because you could switch the guard to always guarantee it for a minimum of 40 damage. More so if slip through was active. (57? I think.) Now that it doesn't nuke people but holds the same weaknesses it's poor. I'd like for her to get multiple options with her deflect to make it more of a utility tool.

    Shaolin's can trade for bad damage and the follow up CC attempt (since it flows into qi) is VERY inconsistent. Making it do more damage and/or making qi/infinite combo better on Shaolin will fix this.

    PK's i'm torn on. It's 24 damage which is good enough but isn't instant and has poor dodge/cgb recovery.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Zerk's is indeed strong. Glad's is in theory since pins reset hitstun but considering you're more likely deflecting combo attacks and HA being far more present on those his pin doesn't work. Valk's IIRC only guarantees a follow up light on assassins. With standard guard I think it is blockable.
    Orochi's deflect is actually fine now. Wasn't at the start of CCU but it got it's numbers adjusted so it's good now considering it's mix up utility.

    The only two deflects I can consider objectively weak are Nuxia's and shaolin's. Nuxia's was "fine" pre ccu because you could switch the guard to always guarantee it for a minimum of 40 damage. More so if slip through was active. (57? I think.) Now that it doesn't nuke people but holds the same weaknesses it's poor. I'd like for her to get multiple options with her deflect to make it more of a utility tool.

    Shaolin's can trade for bad damage and the follow up CC attempt (since it flows into qi) is VERY inconsistent. Making it do more damage and/or making qi/infinite combo better on Shaolin will fix this.

    PK's i'm torn on. It's 24 damage which is good enough but isn't instant and has poor dodge/cgb recovery.
    These are still huge, existing differences- one hero gets 24 damage and possibly trades, while others either get 30-50, or they get it on everything completely riskfree. I could understand the argument that people should be mindful about what they are deflect ing, but zerk exists.
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  6. #6
    I don't wanna be that 1 guy who is always complaining about shinobi but can we talk about his deflect. As far as I know the kick, heavy deflect is supposed to be guaranteed if you throw the heavy from a different side to where the opponent threw the attack however many times I have deflected side dodge attacks only for my top heavy to get blocked, which leaves me with 1 option, the light deflect for a whopping 13 dmg. His deflect can also be quite a disadvantage in ganks especially if you accidentally deflect just as you teleport you are vulnerable to attacks (something other characters don't have to worry about) but shinobi teleports whether you want him to or not. The only upside I can find for his deflect is you can beat hyper armor.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    These are still huge, existing differences- one hero gets 24 damage and possibly trades, while others either get 30-50, or they get it on everything completely riskfree. I could understand the argument that people should be mindful about what they are deflect ing, but zerk exists.
    I believe the reasoning behind pk's situation is that it procs bleed. Which in addition to her damage allows her to take advantage of enhanced lights. But this doesn't feel as good as it should potentially be because her combo situation isn't the best. I think all deflects should have great recovery so they can not be boned externally when deflecting in an out numbered situation or when trying to deal with HA follow ups. As for pk's situation i'd rather they try to make her combo situation better over making deflect stronger. As having access to her bleed proc from a defensive manner can be quite strong since she doesn't have an easy way to proc bleed to begin with.

    Originally Posted by Chump94 Go to original post
    I don't wanna be that 1 guy who is always complaining about shinobi but can we talk about his deflect. As far as I know the kick, heavy deflect is supposed to be guaranteed if you throw the heavy from a different side to where the opponent threw the attack however many times I have deflected side dodge attacks only for my top heavy to get blocked, which leaves me with 1 option, the light deflect for a whopping 13 dmg. His deflect can also be quite a disadvantage in ganks especially if you accidentally deflect just as you teleport you are vulnerable to attacks (something other characters don't have to worry about) but shinobi teleports whether you want him to or not. The only upside I can find for his deflect is you can beat hyper armor.
    I'm not Incredibly familiar with shinobi but I think if you deflect say a right side attack you throw a left side heavy after the kick and vise versa. With top deflects allowing you to go either side. I can test this myself later today as i'm not aware of anything from the CCU that would've changed his deflect situation. As far as pros go for his deflect he can ignore HA follow ups with the kick. But also the instant teleport he does technically helps him space opponents by actually moving away from a situation.
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  8. #8
    Some hero's deflects are great. Some are not so great.

    I'm just gonna look at the character's I feel have weak deflects now.

    Shaolin, Nuxia, and Shinobi.

    Shaolin's deflect only does 20dmg. Before CCU it only acted as a heavy and did the same damage as a neutral heavy. Now it's only ever a good idea to try and deflect heavy attacks.
    His neutral heavies do 24dmg, making attempts at deflecting light attacks less viable. You can chain from his deflect and enter Qi stance after a deflect, but you'll always lose trades against HA characters and you'll be interrupted from your own chain. I think his deflect should deal a normal 24dmg as opposed to this strange 20dmg value. That's weaker than PK.

    Nuxia's deflect actually hits hard at 30dmg, but it's not guaranteed. I always tend to block it, even on console.

    Shinobi has a couple options with his deflect. You can either just deflect into light or deflect into kick into heavy. The deflect to light is 14dmg. The deflect with the kick to heavy is 24dmg. It feels weak damage wise,, but it does have ledge capabilities and actually spaces you from opponents in gank scenarios by teleporting you behind the opponent you deflected. Other than that, I think every other character has good deflect qualities.

    Orochi can get a whopping 51dmg full charge deflect with certain feats lol. His light deflect is as much as a heavy and his normal heavy deflect is 36dmg. Pretty good.

    Valkyrie can also get a higher deflect number somewhere in the mid 30s or 40s with her Sharpen Blade feat. Top lights are always guarenteed against assassins after a deflect. She can also get a deflect to GB and ledge.

    Berseker just gets a GB off a deflect and can ledge opponents.

    PK's deflect does 24dmg. She can continue the chain off a deflect.

    Glad's full skewers in general deal around 31dmg.
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  9. #9
    I remember playing around with orochi's deflect pre CCU, it was quite fun. If you use fear itself, have first reap active and get a teammate to use a morale booster you could 1 shot anyone.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    Surprisingly intelligent answer, at least for your avarage ones. You should really stick to one word posts.
    If you have a problem with one Hero, you can pick another one. Stop crying.
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