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  1. #21
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    If you make the right read on BP you still get a GB. It's just not as forgiving of a window as Conq. Try punishing LB's dodge bash with a GB.
    Problem is...Lb bash is ultra slow and you can easly dodge it or do a light that will stop it so...and actually you can gb Lb bash
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  2. #22
    Originally Posted by FoxyVi Go to original post
    Problem is...Lb bash is ultra slow and you can easly dodge it or do a light that will stop it so...and actually you can gb Lb bash
    LB's bash is 600ms iirc. so yeah you can react dodge on orange. But I severely doubt most people here can consistently react attack it given how much of a hard on for hate the ccu is around here. Besides, you don't use his bash as an offensive tool. You use it to punish someone trying to mix up or attack you with a bash of their own.

    EDIT: The point I was trying to make is that people will attack BP's bash all the time for it being "unfair" but people gave and still give LB's bash a pass even though it's JUST as difficult to punish after avoiding it. It's just further proof that people have a bias against workable offense but are more than fine with strong defensive tools.
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  3. #23
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    LB's bash is 600ms iirc. so yeah you can react dodge on orange. But I severely doubt most people here can consistently react attack it given how much of a hard on for hate the ccu is around here. Besides, you don't use his bash as an offensive tool. You use it to punish someone trying to mix up or attack you with a bash of their own.

    EDIT: The point I was trying to make is that people will attack BP's bash all the time for it being "unfair" but people gave and still give LB's bash a pass even though it's JUST as difficult to punish after avoiding it. It's just further proof that people have a bias against workable offense but are more than fine with strong defensive tools.
    I love the meta moving to more offense based. It makes for a far riskier and more exciting game.
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  4. #24
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    LB's bash is 600ms iirc. so yeah you can react dodge on orange. But I severely doubt most people here can consistently react attack it given how much of a hard on for hate the ccu is around here. Besides, you don't use his bash as an offensive tool. You use it to punish someone trying to mix up or attack you with a bash of their own.
    Sadly you are wrong...lb bash is 700 ms >.> Oooooo really?" You use it to punish someone trying to mix up or attack you with a bash of their own" You say? Hahaha How about tiandi? Or warden? Or Conq...Or Zanhu... And more..If you will be able to use lb bash on them(high rep) i will give ya a cookie.

    And sorry But only a idiot cant punish lb bash...Or low rep >.> In fact Lb dont have a proper offence so he can do **** vs bash spamers i mean sure he can dodge and use his bash to get only a one light...then what? Bash spamming turtles will block any attack cuz sadly lb is very easy to predict cuz he must do a slow heavy to do something cuz he dont even have light light combo. His longarm and zone are useless in 1v1 so yeah...

    Anyway! Bp is the easiest hero..safe..and with 0 brain..just wait and do a fip or faint and bash bash bash....I won 14 games from 19 using bp tactic...its just too easy...And his gb what looks like a forward dodge...insane...
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  5. #25
    Originally Posted by FoxyVi Go to original post
    Sadly you are wrong...lb bash is 700 ms >.> Oooooo really?" You use it to punish someone trying to mix up or attack you with a bash of their own" You say? Hahaha How about tiandi? Or warden? Or Conq...Or Zanhu... And more..If you will be able to use lb bash on them(high rep) i will give ya a cookie.

    And sorry But only a idiot cant punish lb bash...Or low rep >.> In fact Lb dont have a proper offence so he can do **** vs bash spamers i mean sure he can dodge and use his bash to get only a one light...then what? Bash spamming turtles will block any attack cuz sadly lb is very easy to predict cuz he must do a slow heavy to do something cuz he dont even have light light combo. His longarm and zone are useless in 1v1 so yeah...

    Anyway! Bp is the easiest hero..safe..and with 0 brain..just wait and do a fip or faint and bash bash bash....I won 14 games from 19 using bp tactic...its just too easy...And his gb what looks like a forward dodge...insane...
    You are correct. It is 700ms. that is my bad. I don't understand why you're using other bashes as a response to disprove how LB's bash is used. That's literally how it's used. Do you know the recoveries of those bashes for dodging? Because each move has a different recovery value for blocking, dodging, and CGBing.

    LB's block is 500ms recovery, dodge is 6800ms, and CGB/attacking is 400ms.
    Conversly BP's recovery after a missed bash is 600ms across the board. So technically speaking it's harder to punish LB's bash when you dodge it than it is for BP.

    Calling me an idiot doesn't disprove my statements nor does it do you any favors in an argument. The argument isn't about LB's offense or anything. It's just about his bash versus BP's. One is better on offense for sure. But they're both hard to punish. That's literally my entire argument. You're trying to make it something else by making me argue different points.

    EDIT: for your benefit i'll list the recovery for some of those bashes.

    Warden's block is 1000ms and his dodge and GB/attack recoveries are 900ms.
    Conq's are 700ms across the board.
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  6. #26
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    You are correct. It is 700ms. that is my bad. I don't understand why you're using other bashes as a response to disprove how LB's bash is used. That's literally how it's used. Do you know the recoveries of those bashes for dodging? Because each move has a different recovery value for blocking, dodging, and CGBing.

    LB's block is 500ms recovery, dodge is 6800ms, and CGB/attacking is 400ms.
    Conversly BP's recovery after a missed bash is 600ms across the board. So technically speaking it's harder to punish LB's bash when you dodge it than it is for BP.

    Calling me an idiot doesn't disprove my statements nor does it do you any favors in an argument. The argument isn't about LB's offense or anything. It's just about his bash versus BP's. One is better on offense for sure. But they're both hard to punish. That's literally my entire argument. You're trying to make it something else by making me argue different points.

    EDIT: for your benefit i'll list the recovery for some of those bashes.

    Warden's block is 1000ms and his dodge and GB/attack recoveries are 900ms.
    Conq's are 700ms across the board.
    LB's bash is not hard to punish. If you have a character with a fast light attack, you can react light attack LB's bash especially since it has no hyper armor anymore. You can also toss more attacks out now against him and he can't use his bash to stop your "mix up" because NO HYPER ARMOR. Never compare an overtuned bash like BP to a garbage slow one like Lawbringer's.

    And yes, players will be biased towards defensive tools because the game has gone way beyond the line when it comes to offense. Even the defensive feats are now junk. Blame the devs who went for a far offensive meta instead of balancing both offense and defense equally.
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  7. #27
    Originally Posted by Lord.Warden. Go to original post
    LB's bash is not hard to punish. If you have a character with a fast light attack, you can react light attack LB's bash especially since it has no hyper armor anymore. You can also toss more attacks out now against him and he can't use his bash to stop your "mix up" because NO HYPER ARMOR. Never compare an overtuned bash like BP to a garbage slow one like Lawbringer's.

    And yes, players will be biased towards defensive tools because the game has gone way beyond the line when it comes to offense. Even the defensive feats are now junk. Blame the devs who went for a far offensive meta instead of balancing both offense and defense equally.


    Lawbringer's bash works as it should be: a punish tool. It is not garbage at all, it is actually just a far safer version of a dodge attack (and a far more effective one if you consider that you ALWAYS get your punish no matter what is the move's recovery). Of course, if you are baited, it is not unpunishable. And it obviously shouldn't stop mixups. By the way, everyone here seem to forget that his chained bash is 500ms, and that is actually unpunishable (unless you have a dodge bash).

    So, exactly what is overtuned in Black Prior's bashes? I can name one thing, it is very irritating that it does stamina damage, and that is it.


    Didn't you just say in an other topic that Black Prior is one of the only two knights with strong feats? Unless you meant Regenerate or Morale Boost (I know you would never name Morale Boost a strong feat since in that case you would have to admit that Warden is not the weakest 4v4 hero in the game), you probably meant the level 4 feat of Black Prior- which is a defensive feat.
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  8. #28
    Originally Posted by Lord.Warden. Go to original post
    LB's bash is not hard to punish. If you have a character with a fast light attack, you can react light attack LB's bash especially since it has no hyper armor anymore. You can also toss more attacks out now against him and he can't use his bash to stop your "mix up" because NO HYPER ARMOR. Never compare an overtuned bash like BP to a garbage slow one like Lawbringer's.

    And yes, players will be biased towards defensive tools because the game has gone way beyond the line when it comes to offense. Even the defensive feats are now junk. Blame the devs who went for a far offensive meta instead of balancing both offense and defense equally.
    Yes if LB is predictably trying to use his bash in an offensive manner you can bait and punish it. That's not what i'm talking about. I'm specifically referring to you dodging the bash and trying to punish it like you'd try to dodge any other neutral bash. If you're trying to tell me that you think it's fine for him to be able to reaction parry any dodge attack after his bash whiffs than you're even more mental than i've given you credit for.

    The bias i'm talking about has existed long before the CCU. So good try on spinning it that way. But no.
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