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  1. #1

    Adjustments- minimal things for some problematic fighters

    Warmonger: After the impale punish hits a wall, the bleed should be less. 8+12 is a high, but more fair punish than the current.

    Peacekeeper: Make the dagger cancel frame advantaged.

    Highlander: Nerf OS heavies from 30 to 27 damage. Remove hyperarmor from chained lights, and make it deal only 10 damage.

    Kensei: Decrease iframes for dodge attacks.

    Shugoki: Remove hyperarmor on lights. Decrease hug's miss recovery.

    Jiang Jun: Decrease stamina damage on choke.
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  2. #2
    I don't particularly agree with HL changes. 30 damage is perfectly fine considering how much counters his OF. If he were given better ways to stay inside OF/maintain his OF pressure I could see bringing OF heavies down to 27 or 25. I think the light HA for mid chain is interesting because it lets you punish people who try to whiff punish immediately instead of paying attention to you. And it's a light so if you parry it you do decent damage. Lowering it's damage could be a decent stop gap until they get around to adjusting it's animation.

    i'd make more changes to Kensei tbf. Same with HL. Both need nerfs and buffs.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    I don't particularly agree with HL changes. 30 damage is perfectly fine considering how much counters his OF. If he were given better ways to stay inside OF/maintain his OF pressure I could see bringing OF heavies down to 27 or 25. I think the light HA for mid chain is interesting because it lets you punish people who try to whiff punish immediately instead of paying attention to you. And it's a light so if you parry it you do decent damage. Lowering it's damage could be a decent stop gap until they get around to adjusting it's animation.

    i'd make more changes to Kensei tbf. Same with HL. Both need nerfs and buffs.
    My reason to os heavy nerf:

    1. He gets 30 damage on a light parry. The normal is 27.
    2. He can kill you with four good reads- Hito was nerfed for the same reason. Also, it is not very hard to dodge in offensive stance, and not particularly hard to reenter.

    I don't think that a light having around 300ms indicator, as well as beating dodges should have hyperarmor, and dealing 15 damage (just a comparsion: pk's chain light deals 9 damage). Against whiff punishes, he should use his heavies.

    I think many heroes need far more attention (pk probably needs far more buffs to.be a B tier again), these are just quick qol changes.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    My reason to os heavy nerf:

    1. He gets 30 damage on a light parry. The normal is 27.
    2. He can kill you with four good reads- Hito was nerfed for the same reason. Also, it is not very hard to dodge in offensive stance, and not particularly hard to reenter.

    I don't think that a light having around 300ms indicator, as well as beating dodges should have hyperarmor, and dealing 15 damage (just a comparsion: pk's chain light deals 9 damage). Against whiff punishes, he should use his heavies.

    I think many heroes need far more attention (pk probably needs far more buffs to.be a B tier again), these are just quick qol changes.
    Yeah he does. But it's fine if some heros vary in damage. 4 good hits is fine.

    What I mean is if you use Ballor's might you either kick and get reaction punished, soft feint into cabar toss miss and get reaction punished, or soft feint from ballars into toss and miss and get reaction punished. If you just dance around in OF you're not really doing anything so that's not really a counter. HL's main problem is how bad his flow is with OF. It absolutely needs addressing if he's ever going to be something besides a very niche pick in 4's.

    The second light is bugged and shouldn't be preventing dodges. I fail to see how it has a 300ms indicator when it's a 500ms light. It should be a 400ms indicator. And yes of course pk's does low damage it's a 400ms light with a 300ms indicator. most 400ms lights do sub 10 damage. I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to use either light or heavy to punish whiff punish attempts.

    I argue for kensei and HL buffs and nerfs because it's a good idea to practice compensation when making big changes to kits. Kensei has a handful of things he needs adjusting as far as making him easier to deal with. Which would neccessitate buffs. and HL's kit is Jank flow wise as is. All he really has going for him is his 30 damage special punishes. If we want to reduce how polarizing that feels to go up against then he needs proper changes elsewhere.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Yeah he does. But it's fine if some heros vary in damage. 4 good hits is fine.

    What I mean is if you use Ballor's might you either kick and get reaction punished, soft feint into cabar toss miss and get reaction punished, or soft feint from ballars into toss and miss and get reaction punished. If you just dance around in OF you're not really doing anything so that's not really a counter. HL's main problem is how bad his flow is with OF. It absolutely needs addressing if he's ever going to be something besides a very niche pick in 4's.

    The second light is bugged and shouldn't be preventing dodges. I fail to see how it has a 300ms indicator when it's a 500ms light. It should be a 400ms indicator. And yes of course pk's does low damage it's a 400ms light with a 300ms indicator. most 400ms lights do sub 10 damage. I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to use either light or heavy to punish whiff punish attempts.

    I argue for kensei and HL buffs and nerfs because it's a good idea to practice compensation when making big changes to kits. Kensei has a handful of things he needs adjusting as far as making him easier to deal with. Which would neccessitate buffs. and HL's kit is Jank flow wise as is. All he really has going for him is his 30 damage special punishes. If we want to reduce how polarizing that feels to go up against then he needs proper changes elsewhere.

    I still feel that OS is too safe for the damage it can land. I understand that Highlander also has extreme limitations, but I don't think that in the current meta, a hero should be able to kill you on four mistakes (you usually need around 6 or 7 at the least).

    I know it is 500ms, however, because of the animation, it doesn't feel like a 500ms move, and it is actually the only light in the game as far as I know that ignore the antilightspam rules (sometimes you also can't dodge out from JJ, but it feels consistent with highlander only).

    I would really love normal, detailed reworks for each problematic hero (a rework for Shino and PK is more than timely), but I don't see a willingness for them to put time in them. They seem to be out of resources for that.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    I still feel that OS is too safe for the damage it can land. I understand that Highlander also has extreme limitations, but I don't think that in the current meta, a hero should be able to kill you on four mistakes (you usually need around 6 or 7 at the least).

    I know it is 500ms, however, because of the animation, it doesn't feel like a 500ms move, and it is actually the only light in the game as far as I know that ignore the antilightspam rules (sometimes you also can't dodge out from JJ, but it feels consistent with highlander only).

    I would really love normal, detailed reworks for each problematic hero (a rework for Shino and PK is more than timely), but I don't see a willingness for them to put time in them. They seem to be out of resources for that.
    Which is why I want to kill two birds with one stone here. If we make his flow with OF better we can afford to nerf his ballors might damage a little and remove wave dashing if need be. I don't want him to do less damage without having more capabilities. It just seems like a good way to tank the kit.

    Yes that's because it's still bugged probably in the hitstun department. I think the devs are aware but you know how slow they can be. Until we know the game is basically out the door and the devs are switching into skeleton crew mode I am just going to assume they can still do reworks. It's wether or not they have the desire for it. And I think the lack of them this year is more so because the focus has been on the game's general state over individual heros. We'll probably go back to individual hero focus once they feel the general game state is in a comfortable spot.
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  7. #7
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Which is why I want to kill two birds with one stone here. If we make his flow with OF better we can afford to nerf his ballors might damage a little and remove wave dashing if need be. I don't want him to do less damage without having more capabilities. It just seems like a good way to tank the kit.

    Yes that's because it's still bugged probably in the hitstun department. I think the devs are aware but you know how slow they can be. Until we know the game is basically out the door and the devs are switching into skeleton crew mode I am just going to assume they can still do reworks. It's wether or not they have the desire for it. And I think the lack of them this year is more so because the focus has been on the game's general state over individual heros. We'll probably go back to individual hero focus once they feel the general game state is in a comfortable spot.
    I'm still seriously hopeful for a next gen upgraded for honor, or for honor 2.

    I swear they must have old code from early for honor that screws with their ability to update the game now, forcing them to make silly compremises to balance changes.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by MrBdur Go to original post
    I'm still seriously hopeful for a next gen upgraded for honor, or for honor 2.

    I swear they must have old code from early for honor that screws with their ability to update the game now, forcing them to make silly compremises to balance changes.
    A next gen upgrade is inevitable I feel. It's their only other long standing pvp game besides siege.

    Also yes their code is extremely jank. it's why we still have the match rating system that does nothing for the game. It was just a beta test feature for data collecting but it's so core to the games code that they can't actually remove it without causing problems.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Which is why I want to kill two birds with one stone here. If we make his flow with OF better we can afford to nerf his ballors might damage a little and remove wave dashing if need be. I don't want him to do less damage without having more capabilities. It just seems like a good way to tank the kit.

    Yes that's because it's still bugged probably in the hitstun department. I think the devs are aware but you know how slow they can be. Until we know the game is basically out the door and the devs are switching into skeleton crew mode I am just going to assume they can still do reworks. It's wether or not they have the desire for it. And I think the lack of them this year is more so because the focus has been on the game's general state over individual heros. We'll probably go back to individual hero focus once they feel the general game state is in a comfortable spot.
    I hope they will correct that hitstun thing then.

    To be honest, maybe the problem is with the players who are not used to Highlander being anything but an annoyance who can be taken out with minimal effort. I think I might be this.

    I really hope they finally do something serious about balance, the pk situation starts to be ridiculous.
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