CCU light spam | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

And here comes, the next Bruce Lee, teaching everybody, how to fight. It is a fighting game, there should be some realism in it. I have never seen a fighter be successful, with no reflexes and just the skill to read opponents.

Realism has no barring on anything not aiming to be realistic, so you can forget that. Also easy example. Tekken. A VAST majority of Tekken is unreactable. While moves themselves might be reactable isolated the tools in the game along with the mix ups they're capable of doing because of it being a combo focused game means said moves become unreactable as a whole.

For honor isn't a combo focused game. Meaning anything that is reactable on it's own is borderline unusable. FH had to make basic attacks unreactable in order for "combos" and "mix ups" that this game barely has actually work. Honestly statements like these take the piss out of me. Ya'll have no god damned idea about what fighters are and why other fighters work. And yet you try to apply that stuff to FH like you know something.

FH is closer to a traditional fighter now. If you have a problem with that it's not because they bungled the game with the CCU. it's because you're finally forced to deal with scraps of what makes a fighting game actually work and you can't deal.

[Rallyingox]

Why should for honor be treated as a "traditional fighter"? That seems like a pretty bad idea considering how different it is to them.

Sure its a fighter but, its too different to try to copy your standard fighter and expect it to work, especially with for honor's combat system.

[Knight_Raime]

Why should for honor be treated as a "traditional fighter"? That seems like a pretty bad idea considering how different it is to them.

Sure its a fighter but, its too different to try to copy your standard fighter and expect it to work, especially with for honor's combat system.

It's still entirely it's own beast. But it borrows from traditional fighters. Games do this all the time. And the devs have even gone on record to state they've wanted the game to be more competitive akin to fighters. They just really really REALLY biffed the execution of it. And we've been playing catch up since launch.

[Rasboy29]

Yea they messed up. And what dou mean this isnt a combo using game. Characters wouldnt be able to use multiple atks in a row other wise. No lights are reactable now which leads to its obvious overuse. Remove hidden ms to end spam and give each hero a viable opener to end turtles. This game would still have plenty of prediction but it would just coincide with reaction. Only when both these things exist will this game be redeemed. And before you say that heavies and dodge atks take reaction, just know that if I wasnt referring to these as non reactable. Its blatantly obvious they are. But hiding ms has made all light unreactable which has resulted undeniably into the biggest spam issue in all 4 yrs of this game. Proof that the devs solution to turtles was a disaster. The correct solution was to give each hero dependable openers such as a bash or unblockable. It was heroes that needed fixing not combat. As for dmg and stam numbers, these could have been changed without the CCU

[Knight_Raime]

Yea they messed up. And what dou mean this isnt a combo using game. Characters wouldnt be able to use multiple atks in a row other wise. No lights are reactable now which leads to its obvious overuse. Remove hidden ms to end spam and give each hero a viable opener to end turtles. This game would still have plenty of prediction but it would just coincide with reaction. Only when both these things exist will this game be redeemed. And before you say that heavies and dodge atks take reaction, just know that if I wasnt referring to these as non reactable. Its blatantly obvious they are. But hiding ms has made all light unreactable which has resulted undeniably into the biggest spam issue in all 4 yrs of this game. Proof that the devs solution to turtles was a disaster. The correct solution was to give each hero dependable openers such as a bash or unblockable. It was heroes that needed fixing not combat. As for dmg and stam numbers, these could have been changed without the CCU

Combo heavy fighters focus on juggling a character specifically in corners or carrying them across the field to a wall via combos to setup more wall punishes. Most fighters are like this. Then you have other fighters like smash brothers or sham sho where the focus is more on footsies and spacing for few hits that do strong damage. For honor is a weird hybrid in that it has a combo system but they're not long combos and the down state is not apart of regular fighting. So you'd think it would be more about footsies/spacing. But FH doesn't feature any actual movement in fights aside from random dodges. Which is severely watered down to the point that you can't really call movement apart of the combat itself.

Neutral lights are reactable. Combo lights can be but are harder to react to unless they're 400ms by default. You cannot win against a decent player by spamming these attacks. Sorry if you thought otherwise. Pre CCU had zero "prediction" because you could react to everything once you learned characters movesets. If you mean prediction as in figuring out what the person is going to do then that's still very much here.

You can keep changing around what you say is and isn't reactable man i'm far past arguing that with you. Also they tried giving everyone unblockables as they released. People hated it. Personally I disagree with doing such as it means you just make everyone ignore guard state. If we were going to homoginize the game in that direction it would make far more sense to make everyone still combo on block.

[Rasboy29]

The fact that you think lights are still reactable leads to me to believe you are a pc player and in that case have no place telling us that this game is fine across all platforms. It would aslo make sense why you love post CCU so much as the game still runs good on pc. You are also completely wrong in saying that reaction didn't exist pre CCU. BP's light into bash/undodgeable for example, Hito's kick, certain bash fakes, guessing directions on certain unreactable attacks even (this you guys would love) etc. the list is large. Now it is all prediction. If you are console and are telling me that lights are reactable on neutral then everything you have posted on this subject is complete bs. Facts

[abhinandan991]

Realism has no barring on anything not aiming to be realistic, so you can forget that. Also easy example. Tekken. A VAST majority of Tekken is unreactable. While moves themselves might be reactable isolated the tools in the game along with the mix ups they're capable of doing because of it being a combo focused game means said moves become unreactable as a whole.

For honor isn't a combo focused game. Meaning anything that is reactable on it's own is borderline unusable. FH had to make basic attacks unreactable in order for "combos" and "mix ups" that this game barely has actually work. Honestly statements like these take the piss out of me. Ya'll have no god damned idea about what fighters are and why other fighters work. And yet you try to apply that stuff to FH like you know something.

FH is closer to a traditional fighter now. If you have a problem with that it's not because they bungled the game with the CCU. it's because you're finally forced to deal with scraps of what makes a fighting game actually work and you can't deal.

Bro, I never said everything was unreactable, and in general i dont have a problem with light spam ( if my opponent doesnt have 60+ latency), but that is not to say it is not a problem, and in my comment I was referring to fighters in real life. I think the only issue is balancing in the cast. For players who relied more heavily on reaction, they now have to increase their reaction speeds and everybody doesnt have the time to just sit and play 10-20 hrs each day.
And I am soooooo sorry I have pissed you off, the high and mighty Sir Knight Raime

[abhinandan991]

If a move is reactable, it is useless, because it will not work. You basically give your opponent a free punish, usually a higher one than your own attack would do. So, if offense is reactable, that is not offense, and as soon as you got to a certain level, most moves were safely counterable pre ccu. That is why only Warden, Black Prior, Lawbringer, Gladiatorand Berserker was really viable in old 1v1- they did have some unreactable neutral moves, as well as high punishes.

If a move is reactable it won't work, what kind of logic is this. I dont outright hate CCU, but if unreactable neutral moves were the problem and high punishes, then they could have tweaked some things, maybe updated the moveset of some characters before changing the whole game. Anyway saying all these is of no use because the CCU is here to stay, I hope they make some changes to it.

[King_of_Xibalba]

I´m sorry because here I, again, had to post a wall of text.

People in real life depended on reads in the past more than reactions, yes for those who think reaction beats reading skills in real life, not only that , ELITE FIGHTERS in the most powerful armies did that on a daily basis.

The romans and greeks already knew this. That´s the reason in the republic times, the hierarchy in the legions were = Hastati, 20 to 29 years olds, Principes 30 to 39, Triarii 40 to 59.
For those who don´t know the importancy of the triarii in roman times, the latin peoples had a saying "going triarii" which means going with all the power you have, to kill everithing and win.This phenomena repeated in the macedonic armes(silver shields, hyspapists) the greeks with their veteran hoplitei and the later roman armies post Marius reforms with the praetorians, evocatis and the old legions(elites).Gallolaich mercenarties of scotland and ireland also were elites and most were veterans ranged from 35 to 50 .Almogavars from spain were even 60 in some cases...but that didn´´t matter when they destroyed two ottoman armies and the rest of the byzantine army when the jealous emperor betrayed them... 20 for 1 almogavar.Mongols, chinese and persians also had their elite veterans.

Now in biology we know 13 to 16 years olds do have the best raw speed in reflex times, and the 20-25 years olds have the best hand-eye coordination among the other age ranges with the males producing much more testosterone at 21, also that males are slightly faster than women on average(obviously with exceptions). So, how can be possible that a 45 or 50 year old to beat the troops of that age range if we know in the actual times that by that age due loss of testosterone and the normal process of aging their reactions are on decline? sometimes as much as 30% by 55..

Reading skill my friends. The spanish saying "the experience is everything" is totally true, at least for the brain. Most accounts proved that these elite veterans were extremely hard to kill, every move you do their reactions and their read will predict it, years and years of conditioning their mind and survive the brutal battles changed the circuitry in their brains, is a fusion of reactions and read skill that makes you a kill machine, but the secret is that you need to constantly engage on that, almogavars daily practiced from 4 to 8 hours, only melee drills, also legionaries did a lot of drills for hours daily when they were not marching. This is the secret the veteran hoplitei called strategos the "soul of war" now strategy. So yes, reading skills in the real world are superior to reactions, (but you need a decent reaction too) and the history of the world already proved that. Silver shields and hyspapists conquered the lot of the world with alexander with 40 years olds being the average age.

so, we can conclude that reading sklls also are as real as it gets, they are needed for the elite soldier to surpass the common soldier in the field of battle.

Is valid if someone is getting less fun with ccu or losing more, the first is subjective the second is adaptation.And is true not all can sit for hours daily to adapt.

[abhinandan991]

I´m sorry because here I, again, had to post a wall of text.

People in real life depended on reads in the past more than reactions, yes for those who think reaction beats reading skills in real life, not only that , ELITE FIGHTERS in the most powerful armies did that on a daily basis.

The romans and greeks already knew this. That´s the reason in the republic times, the hierarchy in the legions were = Hastati, 20 to 29 years olds, Principes 30 to 39, Triarii 40 to 59.
For those who don´t know the importancy of the triarii in roman times, the latin peoples had a saying "going triarii" which means going with all the power you have, to kill everithing and win.This phenomena repeated in the macedonic armes(silver shields, hyspapists) the greeks with their veteran hoplitei and the later roman armies post Marius reforms with the praetorians, evocatis and the old legions(elites).Gallolaich mercenarties of scotland and ireland also were elites and most were veterans ranged from 35 to 50 .Almogavars from spain were even 60 in some cases...but that didn´´t matter when they destroyed two ottoman armies and the rest of the byzantine army when the jealous emperor betrayed them... 20 for 1 almogavar.Mongols, chinese and persians also had their elite veterans.

Now in biology we know 13 to 16 years olds do have the best raw speed in reflex times, and the 20-25 years olds have the best hand-eye coordination among the other age ranges with the males producing much more testosterone at 21, also that males are slightly faster than women on average(obviously with exceptions). So, how can be possible that a 45 or 50 year old to beat the troops of that age range if we know in the actual times that by that age due loss of testosterone and the normal process of aging their reactions are on decline? sometimes as much as 30% by 55..

Reading skill my friends. The spanish saying "the experience is everything" is totally true, at least for the brain. Most accounts proved that these elite veterans were extremely hard to kill, every move you do their reactions and their read will predict it, years and years of conditioning their mind and survive the brutal battles changed the circuitry in their brains, is a fusion of reactions and read skill that makes you a kill machine, but the secret is that you need to constantly engage on that, almogavars daily practiced from 4 to 8 hours, only melee drills, also legionaries did a lot of drills for hours daily when they were not marching. This is the secret the veteran hoplitei called strategos the "soul of war" now strategy. So yes, reading skills in the real world are superior to reactions and the history of the world already proved that. Silver shields and hyspapists conquered the a lot of the world with alexander with 40 years olds being the average age.

so, we can conclude that reading sklls also are as real as it gets, they are needed for the elite soldier to surpass the common soldier in the field of battle.

Is valid if someone is getting less fun with ccu or losing more, the first is subjective the second is adaptation.And is true not all can sit for hours daily to adapt.

Bro, u put it really nicely, and it is true, you obviously need to read your opponent, I have done martial arts, and have competed in a lot of tournaments, but I wrote that, because, Goat was saying that fighters need only the skill to read, as if reaction is not necessary to be a good fighter, you need very good reactions to win, and you realize it once you are in a fight.
Anyway, nicely said.👍