CCU light spam | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

I'm going to have to disagree on your suggestion. Slowing his lights and making them chain later after each other makes them far too reactable. I can easily and consistently block orochi mid chain lights because of it. Highlander's is a special case because you're supposed to be able to dodge out of it. They did supposedly increase the link in time for it but you still have a hard time dodging out. Only two reasons I can think is that the hitstun caused by his second light must cause more than light hitstun. OR the animation just looks so jank that people are trying to dodge late and thus get hit.

Even though Kensei's mid chain lights cause medium hitstun reaction you can still dodge out of them quite easily. It's his dodge forward light and finisher lights that cause strong hitstun making dodging out of things harder. In his case I think it's more of an animation issue that throws people. It doesn't help that he uses both his dash light and dodge heavies often. Both prevent easy dodging out of.

Overall outside HL's situation I think "light spam" is fine as is. And any issues people might be having with specific characters are either because said character has quirks people are not aware of, or the animation of the light might not be smooth enough and thus it makes it difficult to get used to (conq's infinite lights for instance.) I'd rather they polish over animations first for mid chain attacks before we look at nerfing lights again.

[Rasboy29]

I fail to see your problem with turtles. Just give every hero either a bash or unblockable from neutral and every turtle would be forced to react accordingly. The game we have now is undeniably a mash fest even if their are ways to counter it. if you want to evade a light chain, yes you can dodge. If the light chain is longer then 2 attacks then you will still get hit unless you have a dodge attack. At this point it is a guessing game where your opponent throws one lights and has to predict whether or not you will dodge/dodge attack. Most matches are people trading lights and dodge attacks which either 100% predictably get parried or not. Without reaction holding any sway, people are free to play this way without having to worry about being beaten by the more skilled player but by the player who is better at guessing and mixing up the same lame light/dodge attack on repeat. I wouldn't care if this post CCU FH's version of defense was viable. (I mean offense countering offense) which it isn't. Guessing will never be considered a strong defense for anyone with a brain unless there is a new sub species of human I don't know about that can consistently read minds. This is boring as hell. I'm just confused on how anyone finds this fun. Pre CCU, give everyone a viable opener instead of spamming lights. It's crazy to think how simple this solution as compared to the way over bored changes of now. If players had viable openers with every hero and took the time to actually learn this thing called a moveset. They wouldn't be so compelled to open with and spam lights and in result get parried. I can't believe such a easy solution to fix spam and turtles eluded the eyes of so many. LOL

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I fail to see your problem with turtles. Just give every hero either a bash or unblockable from neutral and every turtle would be forced to react accordingly. The game we have now is undeniably a mash fest even if their are ways to counter it. if you want to evade a light chain, yes you can dodge. If the light chain is longer then 2 attacks then you will still get hit unless you have a dodge attack. At this point it is a guessing game where your opponent throws one lights and has to predict whether or not you will dodge/dodge attack. Most matches are people trading lights and dodge attacks which either 100% predictably get parried or not. Without reaction holding any sway, people are free to play this way without having to worry about being beaten by the more skilled player but by the player who is better at guessing and mixing up the same lame light/dodge attack on repeat. I wouldn't care if this post CCU FH's version of defense was viable. (I mean offense countering offense) which it isn't. Guessing will never be considered a strong defense for anyone with a brain unless there is a new sub species of human I don't know about that can consistently read minds. This is boring as hell. I'm just confused on how anyone finds this fun. Pre CCU, give everyone a viable opener instead of spamming lights. It's crazy to think how simple this solution as compared to the way over bored changes of now. If players had viable openers with every hero and took the time to actually learn this thing called a moveset. They wouldn't be so compelled to open with and spam lights and in result get parried. I can't believe such a easy solution to fix spam and turtles eluded the eyes of so many. LOL

Guessing, which is reading your opponent's patterns, and preventing your own to be read if what defines a skilled player. So, if you are beaten, that is because they are the more skilled players.

[Rasboy29]

Skill isn't defined purely by ones ability to predict. It is a valuable asset to have tho. A game based purely on this is braindead and broke. If I felt like it I could make reads and play like every other braindead repetitive player. However I can't think of a more boring combat system to base a fighting game on. Taking reaction out only encourages spam and other braindead tactics. If the devs even played there own game they would realize this. This is the dream game for all the spamming noobs who want to join a game and expect immediately to defeat more experienced players without taking the time to learn a character or practice. Reactions separated the spammers, from the actual skilled moveset using players. Hell, I'd even be willing to compromise and have For Honor keep this dodge out of combos idea as much as I hate it its braindead nature if it meant they would remove the hidden ms. Hidden ms is the core issue that has encourages spam and I would sacrifice just about anything in terms of this game to get this reversed.

[Okt0g00N]

ill tell you what guys, get mad at mrbdur or not but he is speaking facts
you need to make a read to dodge out of lights, after all they intended it to be that way

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Skill isn't defined purely by ones ability to predict. It is a valuable asset to have tho. A game based purely on this is braindead and broke. If I felt like it I could make reads and play like every other braindead repetitive player. However I can't think of a more boring combat system to base a fighting game on. Taking reaction out only encourages spam and other braindead tactics. If the devs even played there own game they would realize this. This is the dream game for all the spamming noobs who want to join a game and expect immediately to defeat more experienced players without taking the time to learn a character or practice. Reactions separated the spammers, from the actual skilled moveset using players. Hell, I'd even be willing to compromise and have For Honor keep this dodge out of combos idea as much as I hate it its braindead nature if it meant they would remove the hidden ms. Hidden ms is the core issue that has encourages spam and I would sacrifice just about anything in terms of this game to get this reversed.

Having reflexes is not skill. A trained animal would actually surpass any human players if its species have better reflexes, even if their brain is the size of a but. You would never beat a cat in this, and they are quite stupid compared to a human.


Finding habits, finding out how the other player thinks and defeating them by your cognitive strenght might be boring for you, but if anything is braindead, it is reflex-based combat.

[abhinandan991]

Having reflexes is not skill. A trained animal would actually surpass any human players if its species have better reflexes, even if their brain is the size of a but. You would never beat a cat in this, and they are quite stupid compared to a human.


Finding habits, finding out how the other player thinks and defeating them by your cognitive strenght might be boring for you, but if anything is braindead, it is reflex-based combat.

And here comes, the next Bruce Lee, teaching everybody, how to fight. It is a fighting game, there should be some realism in it. I have never seen a fighter be successful, with no reflexes and just the skill to read opponents.

[Rasboy29]

And here comes, the next Bruce Lee, teaching everybody, how to fight. It is a fighting game, there should be some realism in it. I have never seen a fighter be successful, with no reflexes and just the skill to read opponents

Finally, someone on this thread who realizes that a fighting game shouldn't rely purely on reads. I really love how you put this. Pre CCU people relied on both these things in combat. People with lower reaction speeds relied more on prediction which I'm sure just about everybody on this thread did judging by how much you guys are downgrading its existence. I on the other hand never had a problem with reading your opponents but just wanted it to coincide with reactions like pre CCU. However people like Goat and Raime want this game to be purely prediction based with no reactions which is the dumbest decision the devs have ever made in FH. My point is that I don't have a problem with prediction and am not in want of a purely reaction based FH either. Both these things must exist in FH like it did pre CCU.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

And here comes, the next Bruce Lee, teaching everybody, how to fight. It is a fighting game, there should be some realism in it. I have never seen a fighter be successful, with no reflexes and just the skill to read opponents.

If a move is reactable, it is useless, because it will not work. You basically give your opponent a free punish, usually a higher one than your own attack would do. So, if offense is reactable, that is not offense, and as soon as you got to a certain level, most moves were safely counterable pre ccu. That is why only Warden, Black Prior, Lawbringer, Gladiatorand Berserker was really viable in old 1v1- they did have some unreactable neutral moves, as well as high punishes.

[Knight_Raime]

Finally, someone on this thread who realizes that a fighting game shouldn't rely purely on reads. I really love how you put this. Pre CCU people relied on both these things in combat. People with lower reaction speeds relied more on prediction which I'm sure just about everybody on this thread did judging by how much you guys are downgrading its existence. I on the other hand never had a problem with reading your opponents but just wanted it to coincide with reactions like pre CCU. However people like Goat and Raime want this game to be purely prediction based with no reactions which is the dumbest decision the devs have ever made in FH. My point is that I don't have a problem with prediction and am not in want of a purely reaction based FH either. Both these things must exist in FH like it did pre CCU.

Yeah sorry to **** on your parade fam but I never said I wanted the game to be entirely prediction based. And a vast majority of the attacks in this game are still reactable. The only things that consistently aren't are most dash bashes and combo 400ms lights. But I already pointed this out in a different reply where you claimed only 2 things are still reactable. pre CCU everything was reactable. Post CCU most things are unreactable. It far more heavily relies upon your individual capabilities now. Sorry getting clapped by neutral lights has been so hard on you that you feel compelled to continually misread and deflect everything being told to you.