Kensei the darling of devs.. | Forums

[I-C0SMIC-I]

and some other favored heros like Jian Jun, Tiandi etc. actually all heros with strong and variable superior dodge attack moves need to be tuned down. Seriously since the CCU have changed the way and style to defend yourself dodge raised his way up to strategy nr. one.. especially when the hero of your pick has superior dodge and therefore not vulnerable for guardbreak or physical reach mr. untouchable kensei for example the path of moveset is dodge light rinse repeat.

Rebalance Kensei, Jian Jun and Tiandi immediately after the CCU things have changed like described and i doubt this randomly produced flaws have been calculated. Generally i don´t suggest to nerf heros but in this case its inevitable because currently when i play my Kensei rep 18 i rarely die in 4x4 modes and am top of scoreboard its like a cheat mode actually tbh. Same is with Jian Jun and Tiandi.

Removing the the gb invulnerability from superior dodge is the least what you can do. This very unfair advantage since the CCU have changed defending in general. As a result of this situation unfortunately (superior) dodge/light spam abuse is out ot control from those heros.

[FAT_GUTS]

Kensei dodge is wrong from game lauch. It is too powerful - you dodge, no GB fear and is count as HEAVY = great damage and you risk only light attack in reverse if you get parry.

[Gaser.]

Interesting to see that people imminently call the dev bias for that hero as soon as said hero gives them trouble.

[I-C0SMIC-I]

Interesting to see that people imminently call the dev bias for that hero as soon as said hero gives them trouble.

Interesting that Gaser´s immediately insult criticism about an extremely unbalanced hero by having trouble with the hero..

[Knight_Raime]

While you're on the right track (that being most dodge attacks are problematic right now) the conclusion(s) you've came to are filled with false information.

Kensei isn't unbalanced nor is he GB immune with his dodge attacks. Kensei feels oppressive on console because you struggle to react block his combo lights and some of his lights cause medium hitstun. The real issue with Kensei is his attacks knocking you back a fair distance. This means it's a lot harder to punish a Kensei if you have short ranged attacks since GB's will likely whiff.

Tiandi and JJ can be GBed rather easily. It's their mid dodge animations that are a bit of a difficult thing to deal with. If you have an undodgable or a wide sweeping AoE hit you can deal with Tiandi who dodge a lot. JJ you pretty much have to JB because his dodge has extended I frames, not dodge frames like Tiandi relies on.

A decent fix would either be to shorten the dodge attack input window so people cannot early dodge and then add a delayed dodge attack to "extend" their dodge. Or increase GB vulnerability on most dodge attacks. I'd probably go with the former. This wouldn't buff the bad dodge attacks. But it would make them more comparable.

Alternatively we could just remove I frames from all dodge attacks and instead force them to all be dodge frames. Only allowing basic dodges to have I frames.

[I-C0SMIC-I]

While you're on the right track (that being most dodge attacks are problematic right now) the conclusion(s) you've came to are filled with false information.

Kensei isn't unbalanced nor is he GB immune with his dodge attacks. Kensei feels oppressive on console because you struggle to react block his combo lights and some of his lights cause medium hitstun. The real issue with Kensei is his attacks knocking you back a fair distance. This means it's a lot harder to punish a Kensei if you have short ranged attacks since GB's will likely whiff.

Tiandi and JJ can be GBed rather easily. It's their mid dodge animations that are a bit of a difficult thing to deal with. If you have an undodgable or a wide sweeping AoE hit you can deal with Tiandi who dodge a lot. JJ you pretty much have to JB because his dodge has extended I frames, not dodge frames like Tiandi relies on.

A decent fix would either be to shorten the dodge attack input window so people cannot early dodge and then add a delayed dodge attack to "extend" their dodge. Or increase GB vulnerability on most dodge attacks. I'd probably go with the former. This wouldn't buff the bad dodge attacks. But it would make them more comparable.

Alternatively we could just remove I frames from all dodge attacks and instead force them to all be dodge frames. Only allowing basic dodges to have I frames.

Sound like a good solution and this is what im was trying to say.. early or late doesn´t matter for me somehow maybe its because of the ccu´s 100 ms decreased indicator´s i never can gb Kensei never and JJ is the same.. Tiandi is another thing he can be gb ed early yes.. and when you play a hero with out undodgeable..you gotta parry for a light? Cmon isnt this unbalanced?

[Knight_Raime]

Sound like a good solution and this is what im was trying to say.. early or late doesn´t matter for me somehow maybe its because of the ccu´s 100 ms decreased indicator´s i never can gb Kensei never and JJ is the same.. Tiandi is another thing he can be gb ed early yes.. and when you play a hero with out undodgeable..you gotta parry for a light? Cmon isnt this unbalanced?

Kensei's dodge heavy is considered a combo heavy meaning it has 100ms of GB vulnerability. This means for a GB to actually work you need to catch him in the actual dodge and not dodge attack start up. IIRC dodges have something like 300ms of GB vulnerability. Because Kensei can input his attack 300ms into the dodge at the earliest this means at best you have 400ms to GB him. (technically speaking 433ms because of the one frame increase on all dodge attacks the devs added.)

The reason this doesn't work consistently though is because of the variable input window as I mentioned earlier. If he is always dodging on early timing and inputting at late timing you'll be able to GB him. But if he simply buffers the input on early timing a GB will likely not work. This is why i've suggested restricting the input window. So they have to commit to either a dodge or a dodge attack. Not both.

Though the problem from that is not all characters have I frames with dodge attacks. Some rely on dodge frames like Tiandi. And restricting the input timing means we get a zhanhu situation. In where his attack is always coming out at a specific time. So he's GBed trying to use his dodge attacks offensively. Making them more GB vulnerable skews the risk/reward balance. And finally restricting everything to dodge frames sans normal dodges small amount of I frames means in team fight scenarios you're unlikely to be able to use dodge attacks. As attack hitboxes and ranges are inconsistent.



I don't think there is a blanket solution that addresses all dodge attacks (both good and bad ones) in a clean fashion. I'll probably do a write up after this reply as a thread to discuss the larger issue at hand. As far as your question goes I don't think that is an unbalanced situation. I think the problem in that regard is simply the fact that not every hero in the game has an answer to all potential problems. Which is completely opposite of every fighter i've ever played. The easiest solution would probably be the devs doing a pass on all hero's ranges and hitboxes. So that auto dodging out of combos isn't the best solution in most cases.

[Gaser.]

Interesting that Gaser´s immediately insult criticism about an extremely unbalanced hero by having trouble with the hero..

The only really unbalanced thing is maybe his dodge attack needing some extra vurnabilty,

You ain’t providing solid criticism when you call the dev bias for a hero that is generally regarded as a decent hero.

Calling the devs bias for Kensei just looks stupid.