1. #1
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    The Summit Replaybility Suggestions

    Optional Objectives

    I've posted about this before in other threads, but I'd like to share what another game does with the concept of tower / dungeon game mode. If you know of any other game that has a similar mode, but is more feature complete, please do not hesitate to post screens / share.

    The game I will be referencing is Ni No Kuni 2.

    One of its DLCs brought about a labyrinth - a 100 floor dungeon that gets progressively difficult the further you go down. This is obviously what Summit is doing. The concept is not new by any stretch of the imagination, it's just that Division 2's attempt at the concept is poor in comparison.

    Two things that Summit is missing are randomized floor challenges and player buffs / debuffs. Here are some screenshots below:


    In this shot, you have the list of challenges on the side.

    Spoiler:  Show
    1. Win without taking damage

    Simple, although it's a matter of completing an encounter without taking damage rather than clearing the entire floor.

    2. Use full-Zing skills six times

    More specific for the game, however, consider this as only using a specific skill six times.

    3. Smash a phantasm field foe in one blow

    Again, game specific, but to generalize this: imagine killing a specific type of enemy in one hit / shot. One shotting NPCs in Division, especially in 4 man heroic might be impossible, but the overall concept of killing some type of enemy under certain conditions can still apply to the game.


    Here is another:


    Spoiler:  Show
    1. Win without using restoratives

    Pretty straightforward. Win an encounter without healing

    2 Win with a Ding-D combo strike (The second D word was censored)

    Similar to number 2 above, you could consider this as only winning an encounter with a shotgun or SMG.

    3. Win only using Bracken

    Bracken is a character in the game, so win an encounter only using that character. Would be similar to number 2, or you can spin this into Win only using the Technician specialization, for example.


    Summit should come with optional objectives that players can complete for additional rewards.

    The most important materials in the game are:

    Exotic components
    Crafting / brand set materials
    Faction keys

    If Summit were to introduce optional floor challenges, like mentioned above with Ni No Kuni, these materials can act as rewards, along with a general loot reward. Say a set of 3 floors asks me to complete them with only an SMG (3-star). Upon completion, I get rewarded with one piece of targeted loot, 3 Hyena keys and some crafting materials. Or say I am asked to complete a set of floors with only a pistol and a shield, and without healing (5-star). The reward is a named item, two pieces of targeted loot, and 3 exotic components. Things like that. The point is not the type of challenge that would appear, but principle itself.

    Obviously, you'd tailor the challenges based on difficulty, so that the more 4 and 5 star level challenges only appear in higher difficulties. Ideally, these challenges would only apply to the player, so that they don't have to rely on the entire group to complete them if they are in one.





    Buffs and Debuffs

    In the screenshots above, you will see "The Experience of a Lifetime" and "All Enemy Attacks are Critical." These are buffs and debuffs that increases the amount of XP that you gain from killing enemies, and making enemy attacks only do critical damage, respectively. Because Summit is considered a game mode, it should introduce a similar floor buff and debuff system.

    The floors are played in a set of three. One set could provide a buff that grants all players unlimited special ammo. One buff could have skills always overcharged. Another buff could greatly reduce skill cooldown, like the firing range, or increased reload speed, movement speed, resistances, weapons have 100% accuracy, players do 10% amplified damage, etc. There are a lot of elements in the game that can be utilized as floor buffs and debuffs. Debuffs: increase enemy resistances, enemy electronics are immune to disrupt, every player weapon has a 5 second reload time, increase the amount of dust to obscure vision (kappa), etc.

    Directives are already debuffs, but you can get more creative with having an entirely original buff and debuff system. Take inspiration from global events as well.

    Buff / debuff system could be something like:

    Floor sets will grant 1 Buff + 1 Debuff (give and take)
    Floor sets will grant either a buff or a debuff (who knows what'll happen)

    The intention of a buff is to grant the player some power that they can't get any where else in the game, mostly, while a debuff is a way to provide a challenge without increasing enemy vitality and damage. Whether the buff and debuff system is optional is up for debate.




    The Chest: Make it a Focal Point Towards Replayability


    The overall goal of Summit is "replayability", right?

    I believe there is an issue with this goal, because it conflicts with two aspects of the game: seasons and low quantity of new items when new items are added to the game. I realized that what's not making the Summit replayable is appearing on the seasons reward track. Both the Momento and Backfire are appearing as exotics that players will eventually get for free. Meaning, things that could have been placed inside the chests in Summit, and ultimately sparking replayability, are being given out for free. By doing this, you've just taken away possible replayability from Summit

    But this is also because Division updates don't come with a huge wave of new items. TU11 came with 3 exotics, 1 new gear set and 1 new brand set. Again, 2 of those exotics are free without much effort into one specific activity. The brand set is something you can get outside of Summit anyway, with the named chest piece being sold day one at the BoO vendor. That only leaves Ridgeway's Pride, which was the sort of grind that Division needs.

    All the attention of what would make Summit replayable has been pulled away from it because of the season reward track and the low quantity of new items being introduced, in my opinion.

    Point being: please put new exotics in the chests of Summit, and have it be their only source until they are obtained. The same must be done for new gear sets and named items. But this also must be parallel with having a huge quantity of items, so that you have a bunch to distribute to other parts of the game. Not every exotic needs a source. A general exotic drop of something new would be sick, but I've had Ninjabike drop multiple times in Summit. With having all exotics except the raid exotics, seeing the red beam is not exciting because I know it's something I already have.

    To round out the exotic pool, Division 2 is currently missing:

    Defensive Exotic Mask (Plsss be a revamed Ferro's Mask - Vivian's Oxygen Mask or something)
    Skill Tier Exotic Chest
    Defensive Exotic Holster
    Defensive & Offensive Exotic Backpack (Ignoring Momento)
    Offensive & Defensive Exotic Gloves
    Skill Tier Exotic Kneepads

    Now, this is obviously not a hard rule to follow, but it was something that I noticed. If these items are ever created, please, for the sake of replayability, put them in the Summit chest, because I believe the chest is the focal point in making Summit replayable. These exotics can be difficulty specific, too, much like the parts of Ridgeway's chest is. Player buffs and debuffs would provide further support for making Summit an engaging activity. The challenge is there, with things being randomized, but after Ridgeway, much like the Diamondback, there will be no true reason to replay Summit except "because there's nothing else to do."




    That's pretty much it. Not trying to make huge systematic changes to how the game mode is played, but more so suggesting things that can compliment what already exists.
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  2. #2
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Well if you really want to polish the gear stuff, you could make so at the end of a session (with that i mean 10 floors) the "points" are instead of simply used to get random gear, it's used to limit the gear choice actually, so using X amount of points you choose the brand if you use Y more points you can select what one of the rolls is another Z points to increase to being from a higher difficulty loot pool (get enough points so you could get legendary equivalent loot from an challenging session with directives).

    Taking a note also from another game such as FF14, that has a palace of the dead, which is a dungeon that has over 50 floors but you start at character lv 1 at the first floor and keep going levelling up pretty fast inside the dungeon. I think another possiblity for this "point" system is to make it so you are always starts at 0 points, and at every 10 levels instead you can buy buffs using those points, while many people think i'm some crazy die hard meta fanboy because i defend the idea of directives being forced to make things harder over simply bulletsponges (and the entire point of the game mode is to get harder the further you go), so playing in the long game would have an added bonus of you being able to stack points to buy bonus when things are getting though, and if you just skip it directly to when it's hard you will have no points so you are doing it for hte challange.

    Won't comment on stuff like bugs, lack of scenary variety and oh the weirdy floaty stuff
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  3. #3
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by xcel30 Go to original post
    Well if you really want to polish the gear stuff, you could make so at the end of a session (with that i mean 10 floors) the "points" are instead of simply used to get random gear, it's used to limit the gear choice actually, so using X amount of points you choose the brand if you use Y more points you can select what one of the rolls is another Z points to increase to being from a higher difficulty loot pool (get enough points so you could get legendary equivalent loot from an challenging session with directives).

    Taking a note also from another game such as FF14, that has a palace of the dead, which is a dungeon that has over 50 floors but you start at character lv 1 at the first floor and keep going levelling up pretty fast inside the dungeon. I think another possiblity for this "point" system is to make it so you are always starts at 0 points, and at every 10 levels instead you can buy buffs using those points, while many people think i'm some crazy die hard meta fanboy because i defend the idea of directives being forced to make things harder over simply bulletsponges (and the entire point of the game mode is to get harder the further you go), so playing in the long game would have an added bonus of you being able to stack points to buy bonus when things are getting though, and if you just skip it directly to when it's hard you will have no points so you are doing it for hte challange.

    Won't comment on stuff like bugs, lack of scenary variety and oh the weirdy floaty stuff
    Definitely a survival component there, and I believe starting with nothing every time was part of what made survival extremely replayable. Not sure if they'd make that big of a gameplay change to Summit, though.
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    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    3. Smash a phantasm field foe in one blow

    Again, game specific, but to generalize this: imagine killing a specific type of enemy in one hit / shot. One shotting NPCs in Division, especially in 4 man heroic might be impossible, but the overall concept of killing some type of enemy under certain conditions can still apply to the game.
    Yep, they've even done it in this game - see: global event challenges.

    Anyhow, I'll reiterate my support for these types of side objectives, so long as players don't have to complete *all* of them.
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    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Yep, they've even done it in this game - see: global event challenges.

    Anyhow, I'll reiterate my support for these types of side objectives, so long as players don't have to complete *all* of them.
    Yeah, these things would be optional. Even in the game I am referencing, you just can't complete some of the challenges because AI companions have a mind of their own.

    But as I mentioned, there'd still need to be a purpose for the challenges, even if they are optional and in Ni No Kuni, that purpose is the orb / currency. The currency then leads to loot.
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    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    *bump* I find it amusing that all the people complaining about the game seem to have no interest in supporting an idea that would improve it
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  7. #7
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Moved and updated the OP to be more of a suggestion thread
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    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    I've been playing Genshin Impact lately, and even it has buffs / debuffs and challenges for what appears to be a "summit" style activity, and this game is F2P that came out 6 days ago (Though, this challenge was completing the chamber or encounter with a certain time left on the clock. There could be more challenges that are more than just a time trail, I just haven't gotten super far into this activity yet)





    In this next picture, I already had two previous attack and defense buffs (top right corner) before a third buff, though the buffs were chosen, rather than randomized.




    Jus' sayin'

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  9. #9
    I would really enjoy that optional objectives.

    The rewards mentioned are the same thing I was thinking that uplay weekly challenges should give instead of the 100 credits and 50 xp.
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  10. #10
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    In response to the upcoming changes:

    The ability for players to choose which target loot will drop for them is great. However, consider those who already have "the entire game" in their backpacks. There is still no reason for them to return. In reference to the OP, summit must continuously receive its own batch of new items that can't be obtained elsewhere. That way those players always have a reason to play summit.

    If it doesn't, then you must turn to the gameplay of summit to make it replayable for those players, which the buff / debuff system is attempting to do. Providing power and handicaps that can't be felt anywhere else in the game and not even those players can create.

    Now, there's the new unofficial challenge of completing summit on legendary with all nine directives, which I personally plan on attempting, but again, it's currently an unofficial challenge. There's no patch or leaderboard involved that would persuade players to attempt it outside of intrinsic interest. Course, I am stating this before the patch goes live, so there could be at least a patch involved.

    But, if there isn't any extrinsic value to this challenge, can you really rely on intrinsic motivation to get those players to do it, let alone play 1-100 again?
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