Make Shugoki less irritating to play against | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I am not much of an expert with him. He might actually be underpowered once you consistently parry his lights or play a bash-based hero, but he is too easy to play, and extremely irritating to play against (you basically can not attack nor take advantage of your frame advantage without an uninterruptible light trading with whatever you do).

I think simply removing it would be a bit unfair (though I would not complain), so here is a short rework idea:

1. Hyperarmor removed from lights.

2. Demon's Embrace gets a 700 ms recovery on miss (guardbreak still guaranteed).

3. Headbutt deals 5 damage now.

4. Shugoki gets a forward dodge heavy, which deals 24 damage and starts a chain. Range is 5 meters, unfeintable, undodgeable. Running attack animation.

5. Rocksteady goes on a 30s CD every time it prevents something.

[FAT_GUTS]

As a REP 36 Shugoki I agree - I won many fights with just light spam and loose only when skilled opponent can parry my lights in a row. But is very slow and also attack range is terrible. Shugoki has long recovery time on light miss so when an enemy can do a dodge attack = guarantee hit. So when fighting a Shugoki, a defensive playstile is a must - just wait for right time - otherwise you will get hit by light / heavy on trading. Many Shugoki players use light trading so just wait for parry or dodge. Sometimes fighting Shugoki is super easy - of course the TOP Shugoki players can be tought. And allways be aware of Demon's Embrace - it is free GB + Heavy.

The reason why I left Shugoki and found different Hero as my main is its slow movement (every one can run away for health for example), no fast unblockable attack, bad feints (with long timeup) and very bad defense VS unblockable spams. In prev. patch the devs increased his recovery times so now it is good only in 4v4 matches. In 1v1 is Shugoki easy task.

BTW I had Shugoki as my main from beta. I loved his charge -> knockdown. But someone spam this move in PRO tournament and devs decided to remove this ability. A month later they added new Heroes who had a lot of unblockable attacks including knockdowns - WHY? Because Devs are not players. Devs do not listen.

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

Removing hyper armour on his light sounds fair but it should stay enhanced to chain on block.

That forward dodge heavy needs to feintable or it would be parry bait.

Charge of the Oni should wall splat in normal scenarios and knockdown opponents who are out of stamina. The move is okay for ledging but outside that, it barely has any offensive use.

[Knight_Raime]

I'm absolutely for removing HA on his lights.

[AmsKraken]

Dont need to remove HA, just remove de ccu 100 ms hidden attack and you will be able to parry his lights.

[Lord.Warden.]

Dont need to remove HA, just remove de ccu 100 ms hidden attack and you will be able to parry his lights.

This. Glad someone has finally said it. Before CCU, Any shugoki who DARED to do such a thing would immediately get parried and punished. Now any rep 0 can pick him up and simply light spam endlessly and throw a heavy every now and then.

I said it before, I will say it again. The best way to deal with light spam is the ability to react to light spam. Every character in the game needs an unblockable attack for a viable offense/mix up, neutral lights should never be viable offense as that only encourages an unreactable light spam meta.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I am able to parry his light. It is just irritating how it forces you to turtle the whole game.

Also, please spare this topic from this removal bs, everyone knows it won't happen.

[MrBdur]

This. Glad someone has finally said it. Before CCU, Any shugoki who DARED to do such a thing would immediately get parried and punished. Now any rep 0 can pick him up and simply light spam endlessly and throw a heavy every now and then.

I said it before, I will say it again. The best way to deal with light spam is the ability to react to light spam. Every character in the game needs an unblockable attack for a viable offense/mix up, neutral lights should never be viable offense as that only encourages an unreactable light spam meta.

The only times you EVER post are to bash the CCU.

[Lord.Warden.]

The only times you EVER post are to bash the CCU.

Only the 100ms of the CCU. I'll bash it any chance I get (:

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Only the 100ms of the CCU. I'll bash it any chance I get (:

Even from a ******g backdodge.


But honestly, this 100ms thing solved a lot of problems, even if you don't like it, like formerly thrash heroes (Highlander, Nobushi, Valkyrie) getting offense, some attacks formerly useless usable again (Conqueror light chain), and even if someone was actually nerfed like roack or pk, their offense is at least not always reaction-parried. Now, heroes without a bash could play duels. Removing it would bring back the Warden/BP/Lawbringer meta, and I haven't seen any alternative solution. So, they never remove it, because that would bring back hated old problems, and then the other half of the community would start to riot.

However, they may very well implement a Shugoki change, a light hyperarmor removal is mandatory to make the game more fun, and if they get the feedback, they may do it. Especially if the hero gets some compensation for a direct nerf (though I think he is the absolutely best 4v4 hero right now, I don't know if he needs it).