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  1. #1

    Confused old man again.

    So I'm truly confused now and worryingly the fun is declining.

    I Have Division 2 and the WONY expansion which I play on an XBox One S. I am at Level 40 World Tier 5 and have a Shade Level of 365 (whatever all that means).

    So I've come to accept that in PvE the AIs, if that's the correct term for the enemy characters, can be several thousand miles away, probably standing on their heads aiming their weapons looking back over thei shoulder through a mirror and still hit me with a one shot kill. So I do a lot of hiding. Don't get me wrong, I often successfully completed missions etc on Challenging even if it does take me 40 minutes and once I even did a control point solo and on Heroic setting, admittedly it took me just under two hours but I did it, so I am capable of using cover and shooting from a distance.

    My confusion is this. During play in Matchmaking mode with three other players I ALWAYS have a miniscule number of kills compared to the other three which implies they are carrying me and that I am benifitting in the loot unfairly because they appear to have done most of the work. I can assure you I am moving and shooting and Seeker Mining continually but never get anywhere near as many kills?!

    The confusing thing is that when I inspect the other players their loadout seems, to me at least, much less powerful. I have a jpg screenshot of my loadout but don't know how to insert it into this post.

    For example

    Primary Weapon DMG is 473.3k. Other players are only in double figures78.6k for example?
    Armor 683.6k and Health 291.6k. Admittedly the other players Armor and Health is usually also in the same range.
    My gear consists of 3 x Providence Defence, 3 x Overlord Armaments and all Core Attributes, Attributes and Mods are Red. I thought this gave me more powerful weapons at the expense of lowered armour and health but sometimes I can kill enemies with two shots from my Baker's Dozen Rifle and sometimes it takes about seven or eight shots and I am comparing red with red and yellow with yellow as I know a yellow takes more punishment than a red but EVERY time the other three players have a kill and damage score way above mine.

    If I could come out of cover I would be able to score higher so how is it the other three players, well some of them, just go rushing forward and seem immune to the enemy fire power? If I so much as aim and fire more than three or four times I get critically hit????

    I do have another loadout with four Eclipse Protocol, one Alps Summit and one Han U Corporation which takes me to Skill Tier Six with mostly Yellow Core attrributes and mods but playing with that loadout does not seem any different.

    Am I doing something wrong? Are my loadouts ridiculous? How is it that my primary 473.3k DMG weapon seems to do less damage than a weapon in another players hands with less than 80k DMG?

    Must admit to getting a little weary at trying to understand a game that seems to require a university degree in Advanced Physics and Sciences and am getting close to giving it a break.

    Any comments, advice welcome.
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  2. #2
    WrecK3rr's Avatar Senior Member
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    "Offense is the best defense"

    Is what you have been experiencing with the players you match-made with.
    There are just getting kills faster than you by playing more aggressively.

    As for the damage numbers, you're most likely using a M4A1 and they're using ARs/SMGs
    Even though they have less base damage but way more rate of fire than a rifle.
    By the time you shoot four bullets, the'll be done with the whole 50 round mag.

    Also, figures that you see on weapons are base numbers.
    They could be using aggressive talents like Intimidate with Adrenaline Rush or Spotter/Obliterate to output crazy high damage.
    It is just a difference of play style in my opinion.
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  3. #3
    I totally understand your frustration. It has taken me months to build an agent that feels strong and useful.

    First, and most important, that end mission report is not always accurate. It is often not correcr at all. Try not to base your skill on those numbers.

    Second, how do you feel when you play? Are you enjoying your time? The point of a game is to have fun. If you are not having fun then something needs to change.

    Third, your build. You say your Baker's Dozen is putting out 473K and you are wearing all red DPS gear. What are the attributes on your pieces? To get more kills faster, you need Critical Hit Chance (CHC) and Critial Hit Damage (CHD) on your gear. On your agent's stats page you will be able to see your CHC and CHD values. CHC tops out at 60% - so as close to sixty as possible is best.

    Fourth, playstyle. Those agents that go rushing in guns blazing play that way because that is what they like best, or what they are good at. Some of them use a shield and some of them add armor to their gear sets. Personally, I run the Unbreakable talent on my chest piece and that helps me out of a jam when I do something dumb.

    I am currently learning a different play style and using different tools. Until a week ago, I always played a skill build. A punishing bleeding burning menace! I rarely ever got the highest DPS in a mission report, but I always had the most skill damage! I'll bet you often get the most head shots? If you are surviving heroic missions on your own or in a group then I think you are doing just fine.

    Post your build (gear and attributes) and the incredibly knowledgeable folks of this forum can help you top off your kit.
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  4. #4
    There is a lot of things to consider here, which can help clear out your confusion.

    For one the baker dozen is a low RPM weapon, RPM being Rounds per minute you can fire. Weapons with lower damage have higher RPM, which means, as it was already pointed out in the time it takes you to empty one M1A mag, weapons with high RPM would've fired already a full 50 rounds mag, compared to your 13 (?) shots you have per mag.

    Secondly the reason why it takes you sometimes more rounds per target can come from several factors, those being the following -- Where do you hit your targets? Naturally if you are landing constant headshots it will take you a lot less bullets to take down an enemy than if you are landing mostly body shots. Also there is CHC and CHD (Critical hit chance and Critical hit damage) to consider. If you are having high Crit chance your hits will do a lot more damage when you actually crit, based on how much Crit damage you have. The reason why it takes you longer sometimes to down enemies is because you don't always crit even with maxed out Crit chance. If you land mostly normal hits it will take you longer to kill an NPC than if you were landing mostly crit hits.

    As for the loot -- I wouldn't worry on that part, as loot is individual per player. You getting loot, doesn't take away in any way loot from other players, so they are getting the exact same amount of loot whether only one player is pulling their weight or all four.

    The reason why you are seeing less kills could be simply bad luck on your part. Kills are counted based on who lands the final kill shot. As long, as you put decent damage on the NPC's, you are fine! I wouldn't actually bother looking at the final screen. It's been know for a looong, long time that this screen is highly inaccurate and it's a very poor indicator on how each player performed.

    Things you can improve -- always try to land mostly headshots, as those are the most effective and deals the most damage to enemies. Swap out the seekers if you are using full red build. Seekers are useless if you are not running Skill tier. Put some CC instead or use shield, which is highly effective with the Baker dozen.

    Hope that helps! Good luck!
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  5. #5
    hello crysiskandimann.

    I hear you and your confusion, now i don't team up as i'm a strictly a solo player mainly for the same reason you stated either i carry them or they carry me, but i do understand your weakness and i hope i can help in some little way.

    I did use the "Ongoing directive" green high end gear but the development team at division broke the gear set in an update patch and now no longer work so i tried others but all made my agent weaker and the enemy NPC's far more stronger.

    FYI, AI's = non playable caricature = NPC, just to say how we players phrase on posts

    Now like you i was confused as to why other players did well and i didn't, so i looked up video on gear sets on YouTube but made me more confused as my setups were stronger than theirs and still i felt weaker in play.

    This is where i turned things around i did a restart of and agent zero level but mad more attention to how i set my gear up by reading most of the stats and trying to keep the same gear names and finely found that the yellow gear sets were much better than the green/exotic sets, i do now have different sets for the different types of guns i.e. one for Rifles, one for LMG, one Assault rifles etc.

    Most of my weapons are over the 1.k dpm, though my gear seems weak their armour regeneration and high weapon dpm setting make the weapons stronger and with careful cover my agent strength play is better.

    If you can find the gear sets to suit you weapon preference and recalibrate them to beef them up a bit more and look out for loot some times better same sets can be found.

    I've added a couple of video links to get you started, note the gear set one the play do not use green sets.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRyUV1IWc8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EuoSwe1oPg

    If in doubt look up other tutorial videos on the gear setups and calibration to give you some or more idea as to improve yourself.

    Hope this helps and good battles out there.
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  6. #6
    BT3241's Avatar Senior Member
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    Get rid of the rifle it doesn't seem to suit you and start using an AR as your primary weapon or an LMG . If your not an expert in shooting a rifle it will hold you back for sure your obviously not getting head shot after head shot or it would show in the score - I suggest changing your weapon type go to an AR with an LMG as backup like the bullet king. I find people who can't use the rifle efficiently are always in cover and have low scores. I could be wrong only you know.
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  7. #7
    mrwtw's Avatar Senior Member
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    It's your build. A heroic control point should take 15 minutes. The 3 piece Prov and 1 of the Overlord Pieces are adding to your damage (Headshot, CHC, CHD, and Rifile damage). The 2nd and 3rd Overlord are giving accuracy and weapon handling (which is not necessary with the M1A), but no damage.

    Replace 2 (hopefully the one you keep is the Foxes Prayers), and add a Ceska and Groupo piece, or a Ceska and the Contractor gloves. Even after the nerfs, the M1A is a great gun (I prefer AR's but it's my goto secondary).

    You also didn't say your BP, chest, and weapon talents. Glass Cannon and Headhunter smack, but take a lot of practice. I would start with Vigalence or Composure (for a Rifile build) and Spotter or Focus on the chest. I like focus but I like playing scoped. Your choice. If you go with spotter, Technician Specialty with the laser pointer on your guns. With that build, your CHC should be close to cap, and your CHD should be 150+.

    I use In Sync on both guns with an attack drone and shield to proc it. When Vigalence, Spotter, and In Sync all proc and you crit (which will happen a lot), enemies will melt.

    Your eclipse build is support and you shouldn't expect a lot of kills. You're setting your team up for easy kills with that build (I'm assuming you run heals and foam with Alps/Hana U).
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  8. #8
    COL_Norris's Avatar Member
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    Hi,

    As a fellow old man (70 years old) I run a similar all red build with a Baker's Dozen (with crit dmg and crit chance) as the primary weapon and 3 providence (crit dmg, crit chance, headshot dmg) accompanied with 1 grupo sombra (15% crit dmg), 1 overlord (10% rifle dmg), and a coyote mask (crit dmg and crit chance). The stats show me with 50% crit chance, 175% crit damage, and 103% headshot damage. I can solo heroic missions and control points if I am careful. An important asset to use is an assault turret, which is very distracting for the NPC's as they try to flank or when secondary groups come in from behind as you are working against a control point in front of you. The turret draws their focus and gives me time to kill them with the Baker's Dozen, which hits them like a truck.When I answer the call or join a group with the matchmaker the end stats generally show me in the middle of the pack for team damage but sometimes I come out on top. I am not a risk taker and like you I use cover all the time so that conservative strategy is probably why others who charge ahead end up causing more damage. Then again, I find myself reviving others frequently and rarely need to be revived myself. At any rate, if you have not used an assault turret or even an assault drone to complement your build you might try that as it really helps. Norris
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  9. #9
    Well, I myself am on the wrong side of 50 ... there is a lot to digest here... but I'll give you some pointers, from old guy to old guy.

    Basically, a player with much lower main weapon damage will do way more damage than you because of 2 factors:
    1. They land more hits than you do.
    2. Their build's synergy works to maximize total damage.

    1. Landing more hits than you.
    Think about 2 things:
    a. How many times can you press that button to fire your weapon.
    b. How accurate are you.

    Your rifle does 473K DMG, but you can only fire it 180 times in 1 minute. .At 180 RPM, theoretically, you should be able to fire 3 rounds every second, but you have to press the button every time you fire. In comparison, a player using an SMG with high RPM, as 78K DMG would suggest, can fire way more bullets in those 3 seconds than you can, and they only have to press the button once. Say a player is using a Vector, with the 78K example you give (the low DMG suggests a Vector). At 1200 RPM, they can fire 20 rounds every second. Simple math, just taking those numbers: 473x3=1419, 78x20=1560. Obviously, if you cannot consistently press the fire button 3 times every second, you are at even more of a disadvantage.

    Of course, the SMG has its limitations too: their effective range is much shorter, so you have to get much closer to enemies to damage them like you would from long range with a rifle, which puts you in more danger . Also, SMGs are generally not as accurate as rifles, so landing shots (especially head shots which multiply damage), is generally harder.

    As for how accurate you are, I am referring to how well you aim and shoot, not the accuracy stat in-game. The accuracy stat in-game makes your groupings tighter (the white dots flashing in your crosshairs]. Personally, the in-game stat that helps me land shots more effectively is stability. The more stability, the less kick the weapons have, and the more accurate you are at aim and shoot. Personally, I sacrifice a lot of things for stability, even mag capacity and max damage. It does me no good to have 400k DMG and 40 rounds if I miss 20 shots. I rather do 300k DMG and consistently land 20 shots, as in the long run I'll do more damage quicker.

    2. Build synergy
    This is where it can get complicated. This is where you multiply your total damage. Here is where you have to make choices to make sure you are maximizing your damage output. It is not an exact science, and there is a lot of RNG involved, so getting the exact pieces you want is difficult. The idea is to make the most of what you have.

    So, you are suing Overlord and Providence.
    Overlord is obviously the rifle set, and the first stat gives you 10% rifle damage, so ok. But, what about the other 2? How beneficial are to your build? Weapon handling is a weird stat, gives you some accuracy and some stability, but you can get that stat from a scope. Personally, anything accuracy and stability, I get from weapons/weapon mods. Are there other stats at that position that can help you more from other sets? You say you are constantly throwing seekers all the time... 1 piece Hana-U (10% skill haste) and 1 piece 1 piece China Light (15% Explosive damage) will help you do more damage faster than the 2nd and 3rd Overlord pieces.

    Providence, the first stat gives you 15% headshot damage. Can you consistently hit NPCs in the head? If you can't, you are wasting that stat. I personally can't do that. I'd rather add armor (Gila), skill duration if using a timed skill (Murakami) or skill damage (Wyvern) if using skills like seekers, weapon damage for my secondary weapon... The other 2 stats, critical hit chance and critical hit damage, I can get from 1 piece Ceska and 1 piece Grupo Sombra gear.

    And, using more gear sets in that manner (mixing various sets), gives me more chances to get high attributes (weapon damage, crit damage, crit chance, etc).

    How about chest and backpack talents?
    A couple of examples: if you are throwing seekers, you can put Spark in your chest/backpack and add 15% to your weapon damage when your seekers hit. With Spark, I prefer to use a drone, as it lasts some time, hits a lot of NPCs, and even if it doesn't damage them significantly, it maintains the Spark buff active. I could also use a turret, put Companion on my Backpack, and if I stay close to the turret, I can stack the Spark and Companion buffs for added 30% weapon damage.


    As for those guys who walk to the NPCs, they do so because they know they can damage NPCs faster than the NPCs can kill them. They may have some armor on kill mods/talents.

    Hope this helps.
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  10. #10
    nuxbag's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by crysiskandimann Go to original post
    So I'm truly confused now and worryingly the fun is declining.

    I Have Division 2 and the WONY expansion which I play on an XBox One S. I am at Level 40 World Tier 5 and have a Shade Level of 365 (whatever all that means).

    So I've come to accept that in PvE the AIs, if that's the correct term for the enemy characters, can be several thousand miles away, probably standing on their heads aiming their weapons looking back over thei shoulder through a mirror and still hit me with a one shot kill. So I do a lot of hiding. Don't get me wrong, I often successfully completed missions etc on Challenging even if it does take me 40 minutes and once I even did a control point solo and on Heroic setting, admittedly it took me just under two hours but I did it, so I am capable of using cover and shooting from a distance.

    My confusion is this. During play in Matchmaking mode with three other players I ALWAYS have a miniscule number of kills compared to the other three which implies they are carrying me and that I am benifitting in the loot unfairly because they appear to have done most of the work. I can assure you I am moving and shooting and Seeker Mining continually but never get anywhere near as many kills?!

    The confusing thing is that when I inspect the other players their loadout seems, to me at least, much less powerful. I have a jpg screenshot of my loadout but don't know how to insert it into this post.

    For example

    Primary Weapon DMG is 473.3k. Other players are only in double figures78.6k for example?
    Armor 683.6k and Health 291.6k. Admittedly the other players Armor and Health is usually also in the same range.
    My gear consists of 3 x Providence Defence, 3 x Overlord Armaments and all Core Attributes, Attributes and Mods are Red. I thought this gave me more powerful weapons at the expense of lowered armour and health but sometimes I can kill enemies with two shots from my Baker's Dozen Rifle and sometimes it takes about seven or eight shots and I am comparing red with red and yellow with yellow as I know a yellow takes more punishment than a red but EVERY time the other three players have a kill and damage score way above mine.

    If I could come out of cover I would be able to score higher so how is it the other three players, well some of them, just go rushing forward and seem immune to the enemy fire power? If I so much as aim and fire more than three or four times I get critically hit????

    I do have another loadout with four Eclipse Protocol, one Alps Summit and one Han U Corporation which takes me to Skill Tier Six with mostly Yellow Core attrributes and mods but playing with that loadout does not seem any different.

    Am I doing something wrong? Are my loadouts ridiculous? How is it that my primary 473.3k DMG weapon seems to do less damage than a weapon in another players hands with less than 80k DMG?

    Must admit to getting a little weary at trying to understand a game that seems to require a university degree in Advanced Physics and Sciences and am getting close to giving it a break.

    Any comments, advice welcome.
    in the xbox UI of your videos hit upload to onedrive then get the share link from there then post here.
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