Welp...Change my mind : 3 | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

slow heavy easy to gb...slow nearly usless bash, op useless longarm- no hyper armor no true light-light combo only parries welp : 3 On high reps its kinda...bad playing him..cuz he really needs a rework >.> He is still nice but obvius b or c tier on pc. Im talking about high reps not low reps cuz everyone will complain there...

That bash has virtually no recovery, so it is unpunishable safe for a couple characters. The neutral ones are obviously punish tools. Longarm is for ganks. His slow heavies are just evreryone else's heavies, you can feint them and throw a guardbreak. The guardbreak vulnerability is the standard. You don't need a light-light chain to be strong, nor does having one makes you strong (basically look at assassins). His shove mixup after a heavy is unreactable, and has quite high damage, plus he still has some of the best punishes in the game. Maybe don't play him if you don't like the playstyle- I don't, because he is quite boring to play, but he is still very good for all game modes.


B or C... ok, so he is at the level of Orochi, Peacekeeper and Aramusha, right? If you really think that, you are either very bad, or your tier list goes as far as H tier.

[Knight_Raime]

slow heavy easy to gb...slow nearly usless bash, op useless longarm- no hyper armor no true light-light combo only parries welp : 3 On high reps its kinda...bad playing him..cuz he really needs a rework >.> He is still nice but obvius b or c tier on pc. Im talking about high reps not low reps cuz everyone will complain there...

PC players were the players who rated him S tier in dominion and the best duelist post rework. Please do not speak of high level when you have no idea what that is like.

LB's strengths were and still are:

-Very powerful parry punishes
-One of the few heros who has access to the highest HP pool in the game
-A very safe bash that can only be punished by 90% of the player base if using a character that has a bash on side dodge
-A very nearly unpunishable zone when contesting mid
-A very strong selection of feats

The only thing that changed from LB was he no longer has armor on his bash. This means he can't just default bash into someone's mix up. But considering how safe his bash is via recovery that really doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. But i'll do you a favor and elaborate on those points a bit further.

Despite parries and overall damage getting brought down LB still has some of the highest damage both for basic punishes and also max/oos punishes. His light parry is 30 damage with blind and stamina damage. the only punishes that hit higher are cent's talons with haymaker at 35, shaman's bite at 35, and jorms slam at 38. All of those requiring setup where as LB just gets a parry.
Any parry he does gives him the ability to do impale. Impale at best is an instant kill with the environment around. Or at worst Simply stalls someone out/removes them from a fight. You waste a lot of time for someone in revenge if you parry into impale into wall splat into long arm. Heck even that combo is strong with a ganking partner. He used to be able to get this off of a CGB when ganking. Which was absurdly strong.


Him having the highest HP pool in game with his damage means he'll be hurting you on average more than you hurt him. More HP also means more mileage out of revenge. And because he's a heavy he gains access to the best perks in the game. Which only bolsters his survival more. This doubles with his feats. Body count for a little sustain in mid, Juggernaut which is a 10 second stall because attacking into him either risks a parry or he just eats it for a GB. Second wind is still the best heal in the game. And his unique T4 which doubles as a punish tool and a mid clear. Since he can just chuck one at his feat and GB you trying to roll away.

Zone has a very low recovery. If he unlocks in mid correctly the zone targets the minions. Since the attack isn't aimed at you you can't parry it. And the low recovery means you likely won't be able to avoid it and punish it. Speaking of recoveries him having a low recovery bash on side dodge means he just has to option select dodge a mix up and interrupt your offense. It has poor dodge recovery. But very few heros have the tools to take advantage of that. The only way a dodge attack will ever punish it is if you make a very hard read and dodge before he dodges. Very unlikely for most of us.



In duels you basically can't force an LB to not turtle. And most heros do not wish to attack into him because of his punishes. On an OOS throw he gets two top heavies and a top light.that's 66 damage and 65 stamina damage. So half of most heros health and their stamina. And this is only scarier in 4's. This is why I stated initially that if you were a player with strong reactions LB is still very much a scary threat. LB has been brought closer to the roster with semi normalized damage/punishes and the loss of his armor on his bash/400ms poke thus semi nerfing his stuffing options. But he's still a VERY good hero. Just not absolutely busted.


The funny thing is me, Goat, and Bdur are not against him being buffed. We WANT LB to be something besides what he currently is. We're only arguing here because you're a VERY misinformed player who has A LOT to learn about the game. And rather than listening to people who actually understand the game you're choosing to argue.

[MrBdur]

PC players were the players who rated him S tier in dominion and the best duelist post rework. Please do not speak of high level when you have no idea what that is like.

LB's strengths were and still are:

-Very powerful parry punishes
-One of the few heros who has access to the highest HP pool in the game
-A very safe bash that can only be punished by 90% of the player base if using a character that has a bash on side dodge
-A very nearly unpunishable zone when contesting mid
-A very strong selection of feats

The only thing that changed from LB was he no longer has armor on his bash. This means he can't just default bash into someone's mix up. But considering how safe his bash is via recovery that really doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. But i'll do you a favor and elaborate on those points a bit further.

Despite parries and overall damage getting brought down LB still has some of the highest damage both for basic punishes and also max/oos punishes. His light parry is 30 damage with blind and stamina damage. the only punishes that hit higher are cent's talons with haymaker at 35, shaman's bite at 35, and jorms slam at 38. All of those requiring setup where as LB just gets a parry.
Any parry he does gives him the ability to do impale. Impale at best is an instant kill with the environment around. Or at worst Simply stalls someone out/removes them from a fight. You waste a lot of time for someone in revenge if you parry into impale into wall splat into long arm. Heck even that combo is strong with a ganking partner. He used to be able to get this off of a CGB when ganking. Which was absurdly strong.


Him having the highest HP pool in game with his damage means he'll be hurting you on average more than you hurt him. More HP also means more mileage out of revenge. And because he's a heavy he gains access to the best perks in the game. Which only bolsters his survival more. This doubles with his feats. Body count for a little sustain in mid, Juggernaut which is a 10 second stall because attacking into him either risks a parry or he just eats it for a GB. Second wind is still the best heal in the game. And his unique T4 which doubles as a punish tool and a mid clear. Since he can just chuck one at his feat and GB you trying to roll away.

Zone has a very low recovery. If he unlocks in mid correctly the zone targets the minions. Since the attack isn't aimed at you you can't parry it. And the low recovery means you likely won't be able to avoid it and punish it. Speaking of recoveries him having a low recovery bash on side dodge means he just has to option select dodge a mix up and interrupt your offense. It has poor dodge recovery. But very few heros have the tools to take advantage of that. The only way a dodge attack will ever punish it is if you make a very hard read and dodge before he dodges. Very unlikely for most of us.



In duels you basically can't force an LB to not turtle. And most heros do not wish to attack into him because of his punishes. On an OOS throw he gets two top heavies and a top light.that's 66 damage and 65 stamina damage. So half of most heros health and their stamina. And this is only scarier in 4's. This is why I stated initially that if you were a player with strong reactions LB is still very much a scary threat. LB has been brought closer to the roster with semi normalized damage/punishes and the loss of his armor on his bash/400ms poke thus semi nerfing his stuffing options. But he's still a VERY good hero. Just not absolutely busted.


The funny thing is me, Goat, and Bdur are not against him being buffed. We WANT LB to be something besides what he currently is. We're only arguing here because you're a VERY misinformed player who has A LOT to learn about the game. And rather than listening to people who actually understand the game you're choosing to argue.

Well said.

Yeah I mean, I'd be interested to see compensation for the nerf, but Ubisoft isn't really known for that. Take a look at shinobi LOL.

Lawbro would be nice with delayed HA on his opener and 2nd heavy attacks, like Warlord's HA. It would give him better pressure on offense.

Ultimately, there are many heroes in far greater need of attention and changes as LB still performs well if you're good. He isn't suddenly bad. It's just that he isn't "easy mode" now.

I'm actually having fun playing as LB for the first time since he got HA shove and 400ms top light. I had stopped playing him completely once I realized how stupidly strong he was. It was too easy and provided no challenge, so he got boring real fast.

I have no interest in easy fights, win or lose. And again, win or lose, an exciting fight is a good time.

[Knight_Raime]

Well said.

Yeah I mean, I'd be interested to see compensation for the nerf, but Ubisoft isn't really known for that. Take a look at shinobi LOL.

Lawbro would be nice with delayed HA on his opener and 2nd heavy attacks, like Warlord's HA. It would give him better pressure on offense.

Ultimately, there are many heroes in far greater need of attention and changes as LB still performs well if you're good. He isn't suddenly bad. It's just that he isn't "easy mode" now.

I'm actually having fun playing as LB for the first time since he got HA shove and 400ms top light. I had stopped playing him completely once I realized how stupidly strong he was. It was too easy and provided no challenge, so he got boring real fast.

I have no interest in easy fights, win or lose. And again, win or lose, an exciting fight is a good time.

I'm honestly getting tired of having to build walls for people to listen. sigh.

Anyway I don't think the HA would really help him on heavies. If people really wanted that they can just use Juggernaut. IMO it would be more helpful if shove didn't have that weird 400ms delay after heavies. And he had a L>L chain. their excuse for not having one before was because they didn't want him having 2 400ms lights. Well that's not possible anymore. So.

It would be nice if he also had some kind of undodgable to mix in with his chain finishers. The side ones are pretty decent mix up wise. The problem really just is he's designed to be a turtle. Even if he had better chains it wouldn't really change that style.

[King_of_Xibalba]

whoa whoa a week break from all this and they still think LB is bad? how about try some other heroes that are in real need? you know assassins more like...
raime giving lecture over gigantic walls of multiple reasons that are reeeally difficult to argue against is not enough for you... but you think the others are the welps?...nah man you were playing at Easy mode before, thats it.

[MrBdur]

I'm honestly getting tired of having to build walls for people to listen. sigh.

Anyway I don't think the HA would really help him on heavies. If people really wanted that they can just use Juggernaut. IMO it would be more helpful if shove didn't have that weird 400ms delay after heavies. And he had a L>L chain. their excuse for not having one before was because they didn't want him having 2 400ms lights. Well that's not possible anymore. So.

It would be nice if he also had some kind of undodgable to mix in with his chain finishers. The side ones are pretty decent mix up wise. The problem really just is he's designed to be a turtle. Even if he had better chains it wouldn't really change that style.

Yeah I suppose. Honestly I was just throwing something out there cuz LB is in a decent place now and still performs well over many heroes.

[UbiYubble]

I see something new every week when it comes to the current state of Lawbringer, and it seems like the conversation goes back and forth on whether or not he should be changed. I think the nerf to his heavy parry dmg being 40 increased those buff discussions a bit, but just personally from what I've played, I think he's in a good state at the moment.

[FoxyVi]

Oh reallly.... so his long arm is good....his bash is also good and he is not easy to gb when he do heavy (sarcasm) ya can see it and check his heavy frame and ms. I mean come on..give him some compensation...at least make his long arm usefull

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Oh reallly.... so his long arm is good....his bash is also good and he is not easy to gb when he do heavy (sarcasm) ya can see it and check his heavy frame and ms. I mean come on..give him some compensation...at least make his long arm usefull

Compensation for what? For not being absolutely broken? Also, his heavies are completely normal in everything: normal recovery, normal guardbreak vulnerability, and finally normal damage. And the longarm is useful for team fights (though even if we would completely remove it, he would still be fine).


The problem is really with you. You are just not as good as you think you are, you relied on those broken features, and without them, you have been put in your rightful place.

[Okt0g00N]

Oh reallly.... so his long arm is good....his bash is also good and he is not easy to gb when he do heavy (sarcasm) ya can see it and check his heavy frame and ms. I mean come on..give him some compensation...at least make his long arm usefull

try and learn warden or warmonger, both very balanced and good
one could argue warden is overpowered but who am i to tell you

try them yourself and forget the whole lawbringer is trash fiasco
enjoy the game and stop complaining, after all, that's how they want us to act