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  1. #1

    Enhanced lights on Warmonger need to go.

    I'm sorry but she already has too much. I'm not a the worst when it comes to parrying, but quite literally playing against Warmonger is too much pressure that she can dish out with the kit she has, the lights being enhanced do not help at all, she can just keep spamming chained moves with bashes. It's the same as if Cent or Warden had superior lights all of a sudden. Yeah. They were removed from Hitokiris kit for a reason remember that.
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  2. #2
    Originally Posted by lNogardl Go to original post
    I'm sorry but she already has too much. I'm not a the worst when it comes to parrying, but quite literally playing against Warmonger is too much pressure that she can dish out with the kit she has, the lights being enhanced do not help at all, she can just keep spamming chained moves with bashes. It's the same as if Cent or Warden had superior lights all of a sudden. Yeah. They were removed from Hitokiris kit for a reason remember that.

    Hitokiri is easily in the bottom half now, along with most of the Samurai (excluding Kensei and maybe Shugoki). Only the finishers were enchanced, and their ony advantage was frame advantage on block (that would have been against general frame advantage rules, I assume that was the reason).

    Both of your example characters have other ways to enter their mixup beside light attacks.

    Centurion can enter his jab mixup after a heavy as well (though not a whiff if I am correct), and that heavy has different timings. It is also important that Centurion chains from his jab, and does not have the same very high guardbreak vulnerability on his jabs as Warmonger does on her claws.

    Warden can access his shoulderbash from a back dodge, and his succesful shoulderbash chains into the next.

    Without the lights being enchanced, Warmonger could not access any of her mixups against people just matching her guard and reaction lighting on any dodges. She also couldn't restart offense after a succesful claw attack, as the next light could be blocked easily.

    I don't know if you have unlocked Warmonger yet, but I really advise you to give her a try. She is actually quite balanced once you understand what she does, all of her moves have fair counters.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    She is actually quite balanced once you understand what she does, all of her moves have fair counters.
    I don't think her side dodge heavy should be feintable, there's enough guesswork she can throw at you (this is including the guesswork of said enhanced lights coming at you from any which direction) and that move just is too "extra," there should be something she has to commit to in the kit. Also, the bleed is so superfluous. What the hell is that there for on a Vanguard with so much going for the parry punish already?

    I unlocked Warmonger and put 1 rep into her to open the 3 loudouts. Done. She's like LB in the sense that she is a hero on training wheels and has so much going for her it ends up being boring because you have no real challenge in answering anything, and everything is feintable/non commit. You need only really worry about people light spamming you to interrupt you... which is also what ends up making her incredibly boring to play as well.

    And the feats still ruin 4's.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by FuncK_D Go to original post
    I don't think her side dodge heavy should be feintable, there's enough guesswork she can throw at you (this is including the guesswork of said enhanced lights coming at you from any which direction) and that move just is too "extra," there should be something she has to commit to in the kit. Also, the bleed is so superfluous. What the hell is that there for on a Vanguard with so much going for the parry punish already?

    I unlocked Warmonger and put 1 rep into her to open the 3 loudouts. Done. She's like LB in the sense that she is a hero on training wheels and has so much going for her it ends up being boring because you have no real challenge in answering anything, and everything is feintable/non commit. You need only really worry about people light spamming you to interrupt you... which is also what ends up making her incredibly boring to play as well.

    And the feats still ruin 4's.

    From neutral, her side heavy unblockable does not involve any guess work. As soon as she starts it up, you throw a light, and it either hits her out, or she feints and blocks in time (not able to parry it). I assume it also works with 500ms zones, but lights definetely do the job. Basically it's a gank tool and an out of stamina pressure tool (a weaker one than her bash attacks). I think they are also extremely slow, to the point that some bashes recovery is low enough for it to be parried. It has quite bad i-frames. It is very rarely used in 1v1, and in team fights it is likely you will be hit before it lands.

    The impale range is quite low, and I think Jiang Jun's and Centurion's parry counter with a wall is far more cancerous (smaller range, but they can land a very damaging heavy attack from them).


    I have 3 reps with her. I played both PK when she had 49 damage heavies, and Lawbringer in the most broken states. Warmonger is nothing like them in strenght, she is just one more viable character. Against a Prior, Warden, Lawbringer, Kensei etc, she does not feel op. Of course, she is OP against an Orochi or Peacekeeper, but that is mostly problems on their part.
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  5. #5
    Especially since all of her chains end with heavies.
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  6. #6
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    From neutral, her side heavy unblockable does not involve any guess work. As soon as she starts it up, you throw a light, and it either hits her out, or she feints and blocks in time (not able to parry it). I assume it also works with 500ms zones, but lights definetely do the job. Basically it's a gank tool and an out of stamina pressure tool (a weaker one than her bash attacks). I think they are also extremely slow, to the point that some bashes recovery is low enough for it to be parried. It has quite bad i-frames. It is very rarely used in 1v1, and in team fights it is likely you will be hit before it lands.

    The impale range is quite low, and I think Jiang Jun's and Centurion's parry counter with a wall is far more cancerous (smaller range, but they can land a very damaging heavy attack from them).


    I have 3 reps with her. I played both PK when she had 49 damage heavies, and Lawbringer in the most broken states. Warmonger is nothing like them in strenght, she is just one more viable character. Against a Prior, Warden, Lawbringer, Kensei etc, she does not feel op. Of course, she is OP against an Orochi or Peacekeeper, but that is mostly problems on their part.
    Yeah, I agree about WM for the most part.

    I think it was Knight Raime who mentioned her parry counter is a little OP and I have to agree with him.

    Nerf its range or wall bash damage. One or the other. Both might be too much of a nerf.

    As for her enhanced lights, I don't see them being very problematic.

    I find Warmonger fun to fight as and against. Also, I've seen plenty of WMs go 0 and 3 in duels. She isn't easy mode like LB was, or Raider during his time beside the gods.

    Happy to see they nerfed her feats.

    Next up, maybe remove HA from shugo's light attack?
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    From neutral, her side heavy unblockable does not involve any guess work. As soon as she starts it up, you throw a light, and it either hits her out, or she feints and blocks in time (not able to parry it). I assume it also works with 500ms zones, but lights definetely do the job. Basically it's a gank tool and an out of stamina pressure tool (a weaker one than her bash attacks). I think they are also extremely slow, to the point that some bashes recovery is low enough for it to be parried. It has quite bad i-frames. It is very rarely used in 1v1, and in team fights it is likely you will be hit before it lands.

    The impale range is quite low, and I think Jiang Jun's and Centurion's parry counter with a wall is far more cancerous (smaller range, but they can land a very damaging heavy attack from them).


    I have 3 reps with her. I played both PK when she had 49 damage heavies, and Lawbringer in the most broken states. Warmonger is nothing like them in strenght, she is just one more viable character. Against a Prior, Warden, Lawbringer, Kensei etc, she does not feel op. Of course, she is OP against an Orochi or Peacekeeper, but that is mostly problems on their part.
    I don't think her kit is crazy OP like others are complaining about, instead I think it's overloaded in superfluous ways that make her annoying and boring. Mainly the two things I pointed out in my previous post, and IMO she could lose these two aspects and remain more than viable. Lose the cancel on dodge attack, and lose the bleed.

    When a class is "too easy" to answer everything with, it ends up being boring to play and eye rolling to face. It's possible to pile on too much good stuff into a kit where it then turns into bad game design. It's like there was no "producer/adult/boss" in the room when they designed her to say "stop right here" but instead just kept piling on features. Like the bleed... jeeze a bleed really? This same thinking definitely applies to her ridiculous feats in which they clearly ran away with a bad idea in a manic fashion, and apparently nobody was there in the building (or in our times, a zoom meeting lmao) to tell them what they were doing was crazy. Did you see the reveal stream and the grin that couldn't be wiped off their faces? They were SUPER excited to show this stuff off and completely oblivious as to how bad those feats actually were.

    I had the same issues/vibe with LB. "Wheelchair class/Training wheels" describes both IMO.

    I don't have a problem with her enhanced lights for the record, but I imagine enhanced lights in general are a problem for people on console post CCU.

    Her feats are obviously game breaking OP tho, those T1-T3 need to be dumped ASAP. Even the T1 nerfed has no business being a T1 still, and because of this it goes without saying that the T2 and T3 are moot point because they revolve around a fundamentally broken T1 concept.
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  8. #8
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by FuncK_D Go to original post
    I don't think her kit is crazy OP like others are complaining about, instead I think it's overloaded in superfluous ways that make her annoying and boring. Mainly the two things I pointed out in my previous post, and IMO she could lose these two aspects and remain more than viable. Lose the cancel on dodge attack, and lose the bleed.

    When a class is "too easy" to answer everything with, it ends up being boring to play and eye rolling to face. It's possible to pile on too much good stuff into a kit where it then turns into bad game design. It's like there was no "producer/adult/boss" in the room when they designed her to say "stop right here" but instead just kept piling on features. Like the bleed... jeeze a bleed really? This same thinking definitely applies to her ridiculous feats in which they clearly ran away with a bad idea in a manic fashion, and apparently nobody was there in the building (or in our times, a zoom meeting lmao) to tell them what they were doing was crazy. Did you see the reveal stream and the grin that couldn't be wiped off their faces? They were SUPER excited to show this stuff off and completely oblivious as to how bad those feats actually were.

    I had the same issues/vibe with LB. "Wheelchair class/Training wheels" describes both IMO.

    I don't have a problem with her enhanced lights for the record, but I imagine enhanced lights in general are a problem for people on console post CCU.

    Her feats are obviously game breaking OP tho, those T1-T3 need to be dumped ASAP. Even the T1 nerfed has no business being a T1 still, and because of this it goes without saying that the T2 and T3 are moot point because they revolve around a fundamentally broken T1 concept.
    I disagree in comparing WM to pre nerf LB. LB was far more broken imo.

    Also, I'm on console, and again, don't have much issue with the enhanced lights.

    I actually like WM outside of 4's. Havent experienced her feats much tbh, but even so I know they were or still are broken.
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  9. #9
    I'd rather they rebuff their efforts into addressing her feats properly than appease individuals who get upset over a hero that can't be shut out by blocking despite her kit being very predictable with proper risk reward to it.
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  10. #10
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    I'd rather they rebuff their efforts into addressing her feats properly than appease individuals who get upset over a hero that can't be shut out by blocking despite her kit being very predictable with proper risk reward to it.
    exactly.

    I haven't many issues with the hero because I mostly play duels and brawls, and it's really only her feats that made her so OP.

    Yes, her kit may need a few tweaks in terms of numbers, but the actual moveset itself is great.

    As you said, it has proper risk/reward.
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