So I finally started rep'ing Jorm... | Forums

[FuncK_D]

And I gotta say, what the actual hell. His kit is okay, but his whole stamina bully gimmick is non existent. It's laughable.

I've rep'd up JJ to 27, Valk to 41, Glad to 14, Cent to 14, Warlord to 5, and finally started learning Shinobi (god I hate shinobi). Tell me why I can put people OOS mid combat with ONE SINGLE COUNTER ATTACK CHAIN with these heroes, and yet I nearly end up putting MYSELF OOS using Jorm's counter parry/neutral/chain bashes in average combat scenarios without ever getting the opponent OOS? What the hell?

Jorm should have the highest stamina drain counters in the game, and that being said, that still should NOT be as much as JJ, Shinobi, Cent, Glad, Warlord, Valk stamina drains currently are (meaning the highest stam drain in game should not be as high as these currently are), but it should definitely be higher than it currently is with parry/blocks no longer draining stam and lights costing and arm and a leg's worth.

So much nonsense in this damn CCU it's crazy. I can put people OOS so reliably with literally a half dozen heroes and can't even seemingly get close to it with the so called "stamina bully."

Dev's really need to spreadsheet all this stuff or consult with information hub curators and content creators because it's nonsensical mechanics and contradictions like Jorm's current situation existing that make people claim you don't know your own game.

There is much more crap I want to call out with this CCU (like JJ heavies still costing a zones worth of stam), but I'm going to keep this specific to Jorm because I've been learning each hero over time and I finally got around to spending in depth time with Jorm (currently got him to rep 9 on the grind) and I am kinda dumbfounded. Because Jorm has enhanced lights and unblockable pressure easily accessed 2nd in chain, and the neutral bash works for pressure/interrupt at times, he is usable yes. This is meat and potato basics that lets you use him okay-ish. But the stamina thing, the hammer slam, and all the feats tied to it, is an absolute meme. It's like if PK or Shaman could only get a bleed on someone once per patch "maybe if they are lucky." It's a real face palm moment because I know other heroes in the game with absolute killer stamina pressure already.

I mean really Ubi, lmao.

[Frozty85]

Now you see what huge amounts of crying on sosial media does.....

[FuncK_D]

They should at this point just make his bash chargeable/feintable, with the fully charged bash causing a knockdown for the hammer slam. Just make him a Viking Cent copy and call it a day. He'll have a worse zone, no variable timed heavy, but he has enhanced lights, unblockable chain heavy, and HA in exchange. Easy. Get rid of the stamina bully gimmick because Ubi can't figure it out obviously, Nobody really likes stamina pauses or drains anyways.

Anyways I didn't really notice the lack of Jorms over time, and didn't realize how dumb the situation was until I just got around to spending some in depth time with him just now. I have a perma red mark on my forehead from the massive face palms I did playing him through these reps, because I'm fluent with a half dozen characters who destroy Jorms OOS pressure and punishes.

It's just so unbelievable I had no idea lmao...

I have a few rep 70's, but I'm the type who doesn't hold on to having a "main" per say. I like to spend time with every character over time as I get to them, and I would like to see everyone balanced somewhat. So this definitely isn't coming from a Jorm main perspective, it's just coming from an objective "oh wait, what the hell" after throwing 9 reps into him to form a solid opinion. My opinion is this is prob one of the biggest examples of why people think Ubi doesn't know their own game.

[Knight_Raime]

I'm not sure I agree with buffing his stamina damage to be honest. His mix ups actually work now. Previously many people myself included tolerated the sheer amount of stamina damage he did because pretty much his only way of doing damage was his slam. But now that he reliably can land damage elsewhere he's less reliant on it. His neutral bash is also basically unpunishable if you don't have a dodge attack.

the increased cost to light attacks+ people attacking and feinting generally more than they used to means people mismanage their stamina more than before. So with Jorm you basically need to chip people away until they're low ish themselves. And that's when you want to bully their stamina. Granted if their opponent is managing their stamina well you're not going to OOS them. However this means the person is likely playing far more reserved which means you get to attack more than they do.

I can see the argument you're making but I don't think there's actual stamina damage values that can be done for Jorm that both lets him OOS people at his own pace whilst also not being incredibly unfun for the person facing him.

[FuncK_D]

I'm not sure I agree with buffing his stamina damage to be honest. His mix ups actually work now. Previously many people myself included tolerated the sheer amount of stamina damage he did because pretty much his only way of doing damage was his slam. But now that he reliably can land damage elsewhere he's less reliant on it. His neutral bash is also basically unpunishable if you don't have a dodge attack.

the increased cost to light attacks+ people attacking and feinting generally more than they used to means people mismanage their stamina more than before. So with Jorm you basically need to chip people away until they're low ish themselves. And that's when you want to bully their stamina. Granted if their opponent is managing their stamina well you're not going to OOS them. However this means the person is likely playing far more reserved which means you get to attack more than they do.

I can see the argument you're making but I don't think there's actual stamina damage values that can be done for Jorm that both lets him OOS people at his own pace whilst also not being incredibly unfun for the person facing him.

Yeah but an important part of my rant was that there are six heroes that drain stamina a crazy far amount more, and far more effectively to boot, with just as good punishes. And Jorm can barely accomplish this without putting himself out of stamina trying, which is pretty stupid considering some of his kit and feats are literally locked behind accomplishing this. His poor stamina drain from the bash and parry counter simply doesn't work now that people don't lose stam from blocks and parry to nurse the mechanic along.

Also, at the end of the day, I mentioned they should ditch the whole stamina bully mechanic all together, and just give him a Cent charged bash/eagle talon mechanics clone for his hammer smash and call it a day. I do agree that stamina drain is an unfun mechanic for the opponent. I never cared for Jorm and hated dealing with him personally, but it came time for me to spend some time with him to really gather my thoughts on the matter.

I do think the rest of Jorm kit is simple meat and potato which works okay... it's boring but it's quick access to either letting the unblockable fly or feinting it. But this doesn't address the fact that there is an entire aspect to his kit and feats that you basically can't reliably use. Like I mentioned, it's like playing Shaman and "maybe you can land one bleed in a match if you're lucky, but probably not." So the whole bloodlust state thing is just a meme and all you do with Shaman is throw lights, heavies, and either let the ublockable fly or feint it. Hope that makes sense.

I was really shocked at what an incredibly dumb state they put Jorm in as of me picking him up for a spin as of Aug 2020. I just put 14 reps into Glad right before taking Jorm for a spin, so imagine my surprise with the difference between how easy it is to put people OOS just like that with Glad and then trying to do this with Jorm, the so called "stamina bully." Like, it's so bad lmao.

[Knight_Raime]

Yeah but an important part of my rant was that there are six heroes that drain stamina a crazy far amount more, and far more effectively to boot, with just as good punishes. And Jorm can barely accomplish this without putting himself out of stamina trying, which is pretty stupid considering some of his kit and feats are literally locked behind accomplishing this. His poor stamina drain from the bash and parry counter simply doesn't work now that people don't lose stam from blocks and parry to nurse the mechanic along.

Also, at the end of the day, I mentioned they should ditch the whole stamina bully mechanic all together, and just give him a Cent charged bash/eagle talon mechanics clone for his hammer smash and call it a day. I do agree that stamina drain is an unfun mechanic for the opponent. I never cared for Jorm and hated dealing with him personally, but it came time for me to spend some time with him to really gather my thoughts on the matter.

I do think the rest of Jorm kit is simple meat and potato which works okay... it's boring but it's quick access to either letting the unblockable fly or feinting it. But this doesn't address the fact that there is an entire aspect to his kit and feats that you basically can't reliably use. Like I mentioned, it's like playing Shaman and "maybe you can land one bleed in a match if you're lucky, but probably not." So the whole bloodlust state thing is just a meme and all you do with Shaman is throw lights, heavies, and either let the ublockable fly or feint it. Hope that makes sense.

I was really shocked at what an incredibly dumb state they put Jorm in as of me picking him up for a spin as of Aug 2020. I just put 14 reps into Glad right before taking Jorm for a spin, so imagine my surprise with the difference between how easy it is to put people OOS just like that with Glad and then trying to do this with Jorm, the so called "stamina bully." Like, it's so bad lmao.

We're in agreement on how much other situations can drain stamina. I think all parry counters that do stamina damage should be toned down. And no bashes except Jorms should be capable of pausing stamina regen. I do think that his UB finishers should cause some stamina damage. It's not like we don't have other finishers that do.

I don't particularly desire to discuss radical changes to his kit though as per my goal with the game now. Feeling wise I liked Jorm conceptually because having to attack something besides the health bar was a novel idea. Though it doesn't need to be stamina for that to be the case. Building a meter would also be neat. I just liked the idea of his non traditional combat. The other reason why I enjoy him to a degree is because he like shugoki is very good at stalling.
Though i'm starting to feel like stalling as a hero concept doesn't work out in FH just as a hero based around trading does not...

I can at least agree to the fact that it doesn't feel great when your main "gimmick" isn't under your control and is entirely dependent on another player.

[FuncK_D]

Well the good news is in todays patch they nerfed most of the massive stamina drain discrepancies out of the kits I was describing, except for Shinobi and JJ. Now Jorm needs his bash buffed to 35 or maybe even 40, and this should fit right into what I was thinking would work out well. His stamina drain should be the most in the game, but nowhere near as much as where these other heroes were at prior to todays patch. 35 or 40 isn't too oppressive, but it should be enough to warrant the opponent getting OOS a bit easier without them being completely reckless noobs to do so. Enough to warrant caution when facing a Jorm, but not oppressive and annoying.

This of course falls apart in duels, as he would need parry stam loss and much higher stamina drain bashes to work. A testament to how flawed his concept is and impossible to balance for both. But at least he'd be better balanced for 4's.

Again, they could always "really" fix this with the charged bash knockdown mechanic and call it a day. The idea being he should have access to his hammer slam as a fundamental thing, especially considering one of his feats revolves around it.

[Knight_Raime]

Well the good news is in todays patch they nerfed most of the massive stamina drain discrepancies out of the kits I was describing, except for Shinobi and JJ. Now Jorm needs his bash buffed to 35 or maybe even 40, and this should fit right into what I was thinking would work out well. His stamina drain should be the most in the game, but nowhere near as much as where these other heroes were at prior to todays patch. 35 or 40 isn't too oppressive, but it should be enough to warrant the opponent getting OOS a bit easier without them being completely reckless noobs to do so. Enough to warrant caution when facing a Jorm, but not oppressive and annoying.

This of course falls apart in duels, as he would need parry stam loss and much higher stamina drain bashes to work. A testament to how flawed his concept is and impossible to balance for both. But at least he'd be better balanced for 4's.

Again, they could always "really" fix this with the charged bash knockdown mechanic and call it a day. The idea being he should have access to his hammer slam as a fundamental thing, especially considering one of his feats revolves around it.

Shinobi I assume was left alone because his front flip does nothing else for him. JJ's was probably an oversight.
Imo only Jorm and JJ should be able to pause stamina.
And I'd rather put stamina damage on Jorms finishers rather than buff his bashes stamina damage tbh.