[POLL] Community Poll regarding the 100ms CCU change | Forums

[ArchThrone666]

I prefer the changes before CCU

[Lord.Warden.]

I prefer the changes before CCU

I prefer only the 100ms change not existing before CCU. I like the CCU stamina changes though.

[FoxyVi]

I wonder....Ubi saw it or just ignored it like everything else from community?

[Knight_Raime]

I wonder....Ubi saw it or just ignored it like everything else from community?

They're perfectly aware of the complaints about the indicator/animation changes. Those were loudly voiced even during the days of the TG.

As I explained waaaay back when the TG just concluded that these changes specifically were going to go through if the data they were looking for supported what they wanted as results or not.

The devs attempted to compensate this "issue" for players by making lights cost more stamina, do less damage, and making all other areas of "spammed" attacks be slower. I.e slowing mushu heavies, removing his top 400ms in chain light, slowing chain heavies on zerk, increasing the branch in time on orochi lights, slowing orochi lights, removing all 400ms attacks from neutral, slowing dodge attacks by a frame to keep them as reactable as they were pre ccu.

The devs firmly believed making general offense unreactable/harder to react to was the way to go for making offense better as a whole after trying many other things. So it was never going to be something they removed/reverted. And no matter how many polls are made that would be in favor of it would make the decision reversed. The devs don't need to bend to every community whim in order to say they listen to the community.

[Lord.Warden.]

I wonder....Ubi saw it or just ignored it like everything else from community?

They simply don't want to appease to the majority of the playerbase at the sake of the minority crybaby "pros" who have been complaining about their lights getting parried. The game in this current state is super unfun due to the inability to see attacks coming and reacting accordingly. Shugoki and Highlander are two prime examples of this.

Honestly, if you want to appease everyone, put testing grounds servers back. Let the players in favor of the CCU 100ms play it there in the testing grounds servers. Let the MAJORITY play the game without the 100ms garbage.

[Sephoroid]

Reaction > Luck
Cutting 100 ms of anims just made lightspam worse.
Broke gank defense.
Made fights luck dependant instead of reaction dependant.
Made players skill much more hardware dependant.
144Hz is a must right now.. not to mention You need to buy hardware with lowest latency possible.. otherwise You are playing paper, rock, scissors game.

[Lord.Warden.]

Reaction > Luck
Cutting 100 ms of anims just made lightspam worse.
Broke gank defense.
Made fights luck dependant instead of reaction dependant.
Made players skill much more hardware dependant.
144Hz is a must right now.. not to mention You need to buy hardware with lowest latency possible.. otherwise You are playing paper, rock, scissors game.

Great point. My friend who plays this game religiously has 300+ reps showed me the true difference in monitors refresh rates. The smoothness when you transfer from 60Hz refresh rate to 144Hz refresh rate is as high as the earth to the sky. It is a must have now after the CCU because of the broken 100ms.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I completely disagree about the way this topic went.


First, according to the poll, less than 50 people have voted. That says nothing about the majority of the players, only the majority of the forum's users. Plus the rep 1 gets the same voice as the veteran player during voting, something that is very flawed, because that rep 1 would get a voice in a debate he/she might not even understand.


Reaction is not a skill. It is limited by things you are born with, like eyesight, hearing, neural system. Imo, it is also limited by early socilization (some expert on psychology may verify that), so if they were put to test more frequently, your reflexes have improved. So, it is not skill to be fast enough to always react to things on indicator, because you either can do that, or can't do that and never will be able to do that.


The former system was about having people able to react things, and because of this, certain abilities were completely unused because they were always countered (imagine all bashes working like Longarm). The current system is read based. People blindly waiting for an indicator to reaction parry are obviously beaten now, but actually, you can adapt far more easily than developing reaction time, even if you are like me: someone who is quite slow. You are always making a read now, even in neutral, and if you are willing to adapt, it is not that hard, and not that different from visible reads.


A visible read is something like this: you see an indicator, a stance or attack, which can lead into multiple options. You have enough time to decide what action or actions are you afraid of, and act accordingly. A classic example is Warden's shoulderbash, but Centurion's jab, Warmonger's claw, or even a normal unblockable or softfeintable attack works like this. Unfortunately, many of these attacks were, and still are, beaten by a tech, like back walking and rolling in both Samurai heavies' case.


An invisible read is from neutral: the enemy player is planning something, and you may decide what action are you expecting, and act accordingly. For example, you are facing down a Shugoki who is very close to you, and since you know he will probably just throw a light soon, it is quite easy to parry him if he indeed does that. You just no longer be able to tell the difference between the light and the heavy animation if you are gifted, and parry accordingly. You have to get into the opponent's head, which is more fair, because that is something everyone may learn.

Also, if you are hit by a light and expect an other light, and just want to reset the fight, the solution is very simple: you can spam dodge, and the frame advantage will get you out of that light chain all the time. It is more fair, because before that, while lights were easier to react to, if you were not capable of doing that, an orochi easily defeated you just by spamming them.


tl,dr: CCU is still (or far more) skill based than the game before was. It requires the skill of reading the opponent, and remaining calm to adapt to bad situations, things everyone should be able to learn. The game before that required only abilities you were born with, which are not improvable much.

[Lord.Warden.]

I completely disagree about the way this topic went.


First, according to the poll, less than 50 people have voted. That says nothing about the majority of the players, only the majority of the forum's users. Plus the rep 1 gets the same voice as the veteran player during voting, something that is very flawed, because that rep 1 would get a voice in a debate he/she might not even understand.


Reaction is not a skill. It is limited by things you are born with, like eyesight, hearing, neural system. Imo, it is also limited by early socilization (some expert on psychology may verify that), so if they were put to test more frequently, your reflexes have improved. So, it is not skill to be fast enough to always react to things on indicator, because you either can do that, or can't do that and never will be able to do that.


The former system was about having people able to react things, and because of this, certain abilities were completely unused because they were always countered (imagine all bashes working like Longarm). The current system is read based. People blindly waiting for an indicator to reaction parry are obviously beaten now, but actually, you can adapt far more easily than developing reaction time, even if you are like me: someone who is quite slow. You are always making a read now, even in neutral, and if you are willing to adapt, it is not that hard, and not that different from visible reads.


A visible read is something like this: you see an indicator, a stance or attack, which can lead into multiple options. You have enough time to decide what action or actions are you afraid of, and act accordingly. A classic example is Warden's shoulderbash, but Centurion's jab, Warmonger's claw, or even a normal unblockable or softfeintable attack works like this. Unfortunately, many of these attacks were, and still are, beaten by a tech, like back walking and rolling in both Samurai heavies' case.


An invisible read is from neutral: the enemy player is planning something, and you may decide what action are you expecting, and act accordingly. For example, you are facing down a Shugoki who is very close to you, and since you know he will probably just throw a light soon, it is quite easy to parry him if he indeed does that. You just no longer be able to tell the difference between the light and the heavy animation if you are gifted, and parry accordingly. You have to get into the opponent's head, which is more fair, because that is something everyone may learn.

Also, if you are hit by a light and expect an other light, and just want to reset the fight, the solution is very simple: you can spam dodge, and the frame advantage will get you out of that light chain all the time. It is more fair, because before that, while lights were easier to react to, if you were not capable of doing that, an orochi easily defeated you just by spamming them.


tl,dr: CCU is still (or far more) skill based than the game before was. It requires the skill of reading the opponent, and remaining calm to adapt to bad situations, things everyone should be able to learn. The game before that required only abilities you were born with, which are not improvable much.

With all due respect, I haven't read this amount of nonsense in a long time. You think reacting to light attacks required abilities I was born with? No. I could take it to training and actually practice it against any character by carefully analyzing the indicator of the attack. You know what requires abilities you are born with? Mind reading. You must be a psychic or a magician of some sort to do that. There is absolutely no skill or fun in "guessing" and "predicting" the opponent's moves. There is a ton of skill and fun though in reacting to the opponent's lights accordingly and dealing with light spam.

[Knight_Raime]

With all due respect, I haven't read this amount of nonsense in a long time. You think reacting to light attacks required abilities I was born with? No. I could take it to training and actually practice it against any character by carefully analyzing the indicator of the attack. You know what requires abilities you are born with? Mind reading. You must be a psychic or a magician of some sort to do that. There is absolutely no skill or fun in "guessing" and "predicting" the opponent's moves. There is a ton of skill and fun though in reacting to the opponent's lights accordingly and dealing with light spam.

Fun is subjective mate. If making reads wasn't fun then they wouldn't be such a massive part of literally every fighting game out there that exists. Simplifying reads as just guessing is more you trying to devalue the argument rather than actually raising a counter point.

And it's statistically false to state you can drastically improve your reaction times. That is 100% dictated by genetics. There are two kinds of reactions. Single action reactions. And multi action reactions. Your single action reactions cannot be improved much if at all and you can easily look up studies on this. Improving your multi action reaction can be done through training and be brought close to your single action reaction. Part of improving this is learning the ins and outs of characters and their match ups along side common behaviors. Know what else that's called? Reads.