Lessons in Open World Design: A Ghost Recon Story | Forums

[MajicNomad]

Great article! Major respect for Jean-Baptiste Oger and thanks to CrockfordCK for this thread.

I like the aimless open-world elements of Breakpoint just as I do for Wildlands. I actually like finding those blossoming trees in games and every time I do, I always appreciate the effort it took to put them there. I can even feel a sense of reward without the need for a loot chest nearby. Pity me.

At the same time, my first introduction to the Ghost Recon series was with the original 2001 version and the careful planning, teamwork and leadership the game required were what addicted me to the franchise all the way through the subsequent three expansions. Alas, like Halo, the franchise abandoned me when it went console-only with Ghost Recon 2, and when I tried Advanced Warfighter some years later, I had fun, but alas, the magic of the original game was gone (also like Halo).

So I'm also of like mind with those of us who want to see a more precise tactical focus for Breakpoint, because that's what I've been missing for all these years, and the tactically-oblivious, vocabulary-challenged AI camp-followers imposed upon us in this and Wildlands most definitely don't cut it. At all. Where the hell are Jacobs, Galinsky and Ramirez when I need them most? UA, dammit!

Because I like both aspects, I would like to see both succeed, and compelling open world design is just as welcome to me as mechanics that support and test my planning, teamwork and leadership skills.

Granted, at this point in the game's life cycle, my expectations aren't very high, but I do hope good things really are coming to those of us willing to wait for them, and wouldn't be at all surprised to see the remaining Breakpoint team bring some much-needed improvements and polish to the game, though I can certainly sympathize with those us who have lost hope.

At the very least, this article reminds me that design talent is not what's wrong with UbiSoft. There are some truly brilliant people working there. The issue is management, and UbiSoft's spectacularly public scandals at its highest levels are but one symptom of a much deeper problem. Maybe an insurmountable problem, I don't know. But maybe not.

If not, maybe we can all win, both players and the staff who continue to work on this game, whom no one could accuse of having an easy road ahead of them (and major props to everyone willing to forge ahead anyway). I won't hold my breath, but I will play Wildlands and Breakpoint as long as I enjoy them, and not a moment longer.

I consider that my best strategy under the circumstances, and recommend it to anyone who may be having trouble letting go when stepping back and doing something else for a while would be a better choice.

Rule #1: Have fun. If it isn't fun, either make it fun or go where the fun is.

I'm still only a couple hundred hours into Breakpoint.

So far, so fun, warts and all.

[recklessnico]

You know as I was listening to a family member talk about living in france and this actually goes into largely why this game is a failure, she said out there the french are very slow to most things mentally and she was not trying to be discouraging but just pointing out how they don't like to conform to most things like learning another language they prefer and want you to learn their language she stated the only time they concede to learning another language is when it is for work purposes and have no other choice but to learn (side note now I understand why ubiparis dev team members can't really speak english very well) She also said the mindset there is closed off just a one way thinking mentality; so now getting this bit of information from her as she was born there came here to the states and later moved back so I will take her view point on this as she is technically a native there whom has traveled as has seen both sides and she wants to leave and come back to the states basically france is lost now understand my harsh remarks of them.

EDITED: This is also why I looked up ubiparis development career overtime with Ghost Recon and pointed out no matter what the original dev team Red Storm has always been apart of Ghost Recon up until this iteration and got this end result of garbage.

Well I didn't realize I was "mentally slow" because of my place of birth but thank you for enlightening me and the rest of my country.

I'm glad we have highly educated people like you and your "family member" to dispense your valuable knowledge upon us.

Thanks again for taking the time, please post more.

[stdape]

I have not played Breakpoint for a While, mainly because it has got Boring, with Bugs galore. When i first got the Game on Release, i was disappointed on how it compared to a Far Cry game, and was not very excited about it. It did slowly grow on me and eventually completed everything, where after being kept alive thanks to Virtual-Chris's Challenges, the Game just got worse down to the endless Bugs. Over the last Few Weeks of re playing Wildlands, much better Missions, but how Broken that game got. Basically they never fix anything!!. Falling through Map still, getting shot through Rocks, Buildings etc and the Aimbot Enemy who shoot you, even if not facing you!
I do enjoy the Games, but why can the Developers not, fix the Games, are they that useless?

[smilecry]

Well I didn't realize I was "mentally slow" because of my place of birth but thank you for enlightening me and the rest of my country.

I'm glad we have highly educated people like you and your "family member" to dispense your valuable knowledge upon us.

Thanks again for taking the time, please post more.

Dude half of my family is french my full name is Ricardo DeChabert I dislike most of them because of this and just to be very clear a person, place or thing that chooses not to conform to their environment willsoon not exist anymore all it is now waiting on time for it not to exist anymore.

[vaessili_fr]

You know as I was listening to a family member talk about living in france and this actually goes into largely why this game is a failure, she said out there the french are very slow to most things mentally and she was not trying to be discouraging but just pointing out how they don't like to conform to most things like learning another language they prefer and want you to learn their language she stated the only time they concede to learning another language is when it is for work purposes and have no other choice but to learn (side note now I understand why ubiparis dev team members can't really speak english very well) She also said the mindset there is closed off just a one way thinking mentality; so now getting this bit of information from her as she was born there came here to the states and later moved back so I will take her view point on this as she is technically a native there whom has traveled as has seen both sides and she wants to leave and come back to the states basically france is lost now understand my harsh remarks of them.

EDITED: This is also why I looked up ubiparis development career overtime with Ghost Recon and pointed out no matter what the original dev team Red Storm has always been apart of Ghost Recon up until this iteration and got this end result of garbage.

Oh boy...

I don't know where you come from good sir, but you've made my day. Jeez, that's heavy xD

Have a good day wherever you live.

PS : I'm lucky you didn't see me typing, I'm so slow I'm even late to be on strike and my baguette is cold. You know what, I'm so slow I will finir ma phrase in both anglais and French. Speaking English ça craint. Français is mieux because we said it.

[TONY-NOVA]

Overall, there is an understated conflict. Ghost Recon originally was designed as a tactical shooter. The name became synonymous for it. People who wanted to experience that type of game gravitated towards it. Each iteration of the game slowly added new dynamics aside from tactical shooting. Through its evolution, designers, developers, and marketers each added their part resulting in a game with a name recognized for tactical shooting that no longer felt like what it first started off as. Fans expecting tactical shooting got more than just that. This also created a gap for people not as in to tactical shooting to play a hodgepodge of something they like say, ie: adventuring and collecting, So the idea that we can get more people to play the game if we offer more than tactical shooting came in to fruition. Now it resembles that. Is it the company's fault? Fans of the original game want a tactical shooter. Clearly there is a giant miscommunication between the company and the fans. Fans want the niche, company wants the mass appeal. Maybe it's the fan expecting a tactical shooter from a game that no longer is one.

[Steven527]

Oh boy...

I don't know where you come from good sir, but you've made my day. Jeez, that's heavy xD

Have a good day wherever you live.

PS : I'm lucky you didn't see me typing, I'm so slow I'm even late to be on strike and my baguette is cold. You know what, I'm so slow I will finir ma phrase in both anglais and French. Speaking English ça craint. Français is mieux because we said it.

Rotflmao! That is pitiful you let a baguette get cold.

My personal experience is people are people and you meet all kinds in all places. During a global voice over IP deployment I had the great fortune to do our Paris office. 3 weeks working there, commuting, eating! Loved it and have developed some long lasting relationships. The one area which is true is the effort of the French to preserve their language. To me that is totally understandable. So much of a people’s history, culture and mindset gets wrapped into their language and gets lost if it is diluted.

[Steven527]

It seems like they thought they were making a Far Cry game, or a hiking simulator or something. I don't care for these "Wild Mysteries" at all. They're a waste of development time. Exactly!



Nothing like this can happen in an open world game like Wildlands or Breakpoint because:

• There is no military support, there is no AI pilot that will fly you to a chosen/preset destination Actually not an open world issue but a design problem Several missions have you in a vehicle someone else drives..and they were pretty lame. (The first Homestead faction mission, The Escape from the Auroa survival center and Sam's mission in episode 2)
• Miniguns are weak as hell and deal too little damage and have broken accuracy making them rather useless (see the mission where you have to escort the programmers) That has nothing to do with open world
• The concept of an enemy managing to escape by running across a border doesn't exist. In Wildlands it was possible and in fact did happen... in the beta. In the beta we only had 2 regions so when an enemy drives across the border you can't follow them. This resulted in the player having to plan more to take them out. In particular there was a convoy that would spawn in and then drive out of the region which gave you a limited window to ambush it. Breakpoint's map is surrounded by water so there are no actual borders, and the drone swarm is supposed to target everything (which is why Walker needed a submarine to bypass it). Breakpoint by design does not allow this kind of experience Again not an open world issue. It is entirely artificial as to setting a delimiter that says you lost the target. BP does have missions that do this. The border is simply an artificial line that says you can't cross. The GR unit by default is a deniable unit so a border should not have to be an issue. In BP it is just distance. Target escaped.
• There are no missions like there are in previous games. Despite the fact that they would work well in an open world we get the most basic of missions, typically revolving around finding intel that then tells us to go kill some person standing around waiting to die. Even targets that should go down with a fight, like the Wolf sniper pose no challenge at all
  Again this has nothing to do with open world but rather poor or little effort put into the game design. What do you expect from a group that designed "gone fishin"?

Great post and I agree with about 99.999% but this piece I don't or maybe I don't understand the full message. The weaknesses of BP and to a lesser extent Wildlands is Ubi lost track of what the core game is. An open world can work as long as the open world is subservient to the main point of the game. Ubi lost perspective on what was GR. Open World or not they would still have failed.

[Flanker1Six]

Thanks for the post and link, Crock! No real surprises for me---more or less a confirmation of what I and a host of others have said; GRB was derailed very early on by choices at the top; in game design, direction, priorities; a willful choice to ignore the millions in free market research available in the GRW forums, and the too short 2 year development timeline. Sad. Sad. Sad.

I strongly doubt any of those things happened because of the people involved were of a particular nationality (ethnicity, age, etc). But, rather due to a complex combination of personality and character traits, life experiences, and personal and corporate goals. Those things are universal to most of us.

Besides---Air France remains the ONLY airline to EVER give me a free upgrade to First Class! It was freakin' AWESOME----so was the food and service! Vive le France!

[smilecry]

Oh boy...

I don't know where you come from good sir, but you've made my day. Jeez, that's heavy xD

Have a good day wherever you live.

PS : I'm lucky you didn't see me typing, I'm so slow I'm even late to be on strike and my baguette is cold. You know what, I'm so slow I will finir ma phrase in both anglais and French. Speaking English ça craint. Français is mieux because we said it.

LOL butt hurt brigade