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  1. #1
    THE_Crazy_Hyena's Avatar Member
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    Why I quit playing TD2

    I decided to move on from TD2 to playing other games due to several glaring issues with the way the developers are handling the balance of the game.

    1. The lack of "sense of progress" for players that reach a certain point in the game. You progress ever so slightly that it is not noticeable - Especially if you are a player who prefers to play solo, or playing duo with a friend. This is due to the rewards being really bad in comparison to the risk you take in order to obtain said rewards. The keywords are Rainbow loot, non-scaling loot, repetitive gameplay (lots of it), slow progression through some missions.

    2. [PVE only] Unnecessary nerfing of weapons that doesn't need any nerfs to begin with, and hardly any buffs to make other weapons relevant. Like some of the rifles that got nerfed for no reason (I'm not talking about the M1A, because it needed some balancing).
    Some weapons just feel bad to use, like they have no meaningful impact. Take the 5.56 single shot rifles for instance. They are just BAD to use. They lack the accuracy and recoil control to back up their lower damage. The M16 is also a terrible gun compared to the 7.62 counterparts. The burst-fire is very slow, and it is very lacking in the damage department, an overall bad weapon.
    Some of the LMG's are also lacking in terms of usefulness. Take the M60 for instance. It is the slowest firing LMG, yet it is the least accurate one as well. And the damage numbers are just marginally better than the far superior 5.56 alternatives (Like 1k more base damage). Why would anyone ever use the mentioned weapons, when the alternatives are better?

    3. The players are very weak compared to the enemy factions. Something is terribly wrong when the basic enemy grunts can out-trade a trained SHD agent (who clearly has the better gear)

    4. Players who favor solo play are being looked down on with angry faces and questioning eyes. It's like we are forced to matchmake in order to get a better chance of clearing missions. Solo players has a much harder time going through the game compared to someone who can squad up. Wasn't the game supposed to be enjoyed by any player? I feel that us who favor solo play have to struggle hard to pass certain missions.

    5. Overtuned enemies. Due to the way that most enemies are programmed, their aggressiveness is based upon how much % damage a player does to their health. This may not be bad in a group of players. But for a solo player, this behavior is a nightmare to go up against.

    6. Wrong talents on certain weapons, like a shotgun with a talent that increases damage dealt depending how far away you are from a target. Or a bolt-action rifle with a talent based upon holding down the trigger. For the love of God, make a talent-specific recalibration station and separate the stat recal from the talent recal (so that you can recalibrate one stat PLUS a talent). It's so frustrating getting a good-rolled weapon, only to have one stat and the talent being unsuitable.

    7. Spaghetti coding. Whenever the devs pushes out an update with fixes, something else breaks and can in some cases make the game unplayable.
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  2. #2
    Fair play for posting this. Truthfully I’m moving in because it’s the same old same and it’s got boring ages ago.
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  3. #3
    gagoom.'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Thank you for your opinions..

    With this many complaints.. it seems like this might not be the game for you.

    That's fine.. not all games are designed to be enjoyed by everyone in the world.

    I sincerely hope that you find a game that you really enjoy.
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  4. #4
    BT3241's Avatar Senior Member
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    I have been contemplating moving on also - the constant nerfing when everything was fine because a few players complained - skills working like garbage because of complaints - the toxicity of clans I will never join a clan again I want to play my game if I am playing not someone else's. I was kicked from one clan because I was always the top on the leader board all the time and the clan leader could never get pass me so he kicked me - I was told this by other clan members as the reason why. He wanted to see his name on top and I was interfering. Toxic. There also is nothing more to play for. I guess I finished the game there is nothing left.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by BT3241 Go to original post
    There also is nothing more to play for. I guess I finished the game there is nothing left.
    Exactly, after finishing the game on solo and I moved into the dark zone. I can’t be bothered to redo the manhunt quests.

    So stuck in the dark zone with the constant go rogue on the Check point children. When the turrets kills them sums up the dark zone.

    Haha thinking about it now, the game is pretty boring Now, so time to move on.
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  6. #6
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post

    1. The lack of "sense of progress" for players that reach a certain point in the game. You progress ever so slightly that it is not noticeable - Especially if you are a player who prefers to play solo, or playing duo with a friend. This is due to the rewards being really bad in comparison to the risk you take in order to obtain said rewards. The keywords are Rainbow loot, non-scaling loot, repetitive gameplay (lots of it), slow progression through some missions.
    What point did this happen for you?

    Also, is there something inherently wrong with effectively beating a game and moving on? Should the game have unlimited progression?


    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    2. [PVE only] Unnecessary nerfing of weapons that doesn't need any nerfs to begin with, and hardly any buffs to make other weapons relevant. Like some of the rifles that got nerfed for no reason (I'm not talking about the M1A, because it needed some balancing).

    Some weapons just feel bad to use, like they have no meaningful impact. Take the 5.56 single shot rifles for instance. They are just BAD to use. They lack the accuracy and recoil control to back up their lower damage. The M16 is also a terrible gun compared to the 7.62 counterparts. The burst-fire is very slow, and it is very lacking in the damage department, an overall bad weapon.

    Some of the LMG's are also lacking in terms of usefulness. Take the M60 for instance. It is the slowest firing LMG, yet it is the least accurate one as well. And the damage numbers are just marginally better than the far superior 5.56 alternatives (Like 1k more base damage). Why would anyone ever use the mentioned weapons, when the alternatives are better?
    I actually agree 100% with this. Some of the weapons just seem pointless. Or rather, the only purpose they serve is to make other weapons look good by comparison.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    3. The players are very weak compared to the enemy factions. Something is terribly wrong when the basic enemy grunts can out-trade a trained SHD agent (who clearly has the better gear)
    This needs more context. I agree with what you say if you're playing on Story or Normal difficulty. But as you move up, it makes sense that even basic enemies would pose a credible threat. This is especially true on the highest difficulties.

    How would you change things on the harder settings? What would feel more fair to you?

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    4. Players who favor solo play are being looked down on with angry faces and questioning eyes. It's like we are forced to matchmake in order to get a better chance of clearing missions. Solo players has a much harder time going through the game compared to someone who can squad up. Wasn't the game supposed to be enjoyed by any player? I feel that us who favor solo play have to struggle hard to pass certain missions.
    I think this one is VERY subjective. Groups have to deal with scaling that adds more enemies and more damage in order to compensate for the benefits of having teammates. I read A LOT of complaints about people being killed more quickly in groups when all the enemies focus on them.

    And besides, anything below heroic doesn't matter for this point. You can just continue from the last checkpoint if you die while solo. Whereas heroic starts you over entirely. And heroic is meant to be difficult. I do agree that the inclusion of raids throws balance out the window. And I've argued vehemently against them both times raids have been released. Raids have no place in The Division's group/solo dynamic.


    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    5. Overtuned enemies. Due to the way that most enemies are programmed, their aggressiveness is based upon how much % damage a player does to their health. This may not be bad in a group of players. But for a solo player, this behavior is a nightmare to go up against.
    It is what it is. I don't agree that the AI is a "nightmare". As a 99.9999% solo player, I've learned to adapt and overcome. It's part of the challenge of the game, and part of the challenge of playing solo. I can provide some tips and even a few videos and builds to help with this if you'd like.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    6. Wrong talents on certain weapons, like a shotgun with a talent that increases damage dealt depending how far away you are from a target. Or a bolt-action rifle with a talent based upon holding down the trigger. For the love of God, make a talent-specific recalibration station and separate the stat recal from the talent recal (so that you can recalibrate one stat PLUS a talent). It's so frustrating getting a good-rolled weapon, only to have one stat and the talent being unsuitable.
    This one I also agree 100% with. I think that most talents aren't very useful. And the ones that are tend to be for niche builds rather than generally being useful. And then there's things like what you described: Sniper Rifles with "Up Close and Personal", or weapons with only 6-7 round mags that have "Steady Handed". It makes no sense.

    I've also argued in favor of being able to recalibrate 1 attribute as well as the talent.
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  7. #7
    THE_Crazy_Hyena's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    What point did this happen for you?

    Also, is there something inherently wrong with effectively beating a game and moving on? Should the game have unlimited progression?


    I actually agree 100% with this. Some of the weapons just seem pointless. Or rather, the only purpose they serve is to make other weapons look good by comparison.



    This needs more context. I agree with what you say if you're playing on Story or Normal difficulty. But as you move up, it makes sense that even basic enemies would pose a credible threat. This is especially true on the highest difficulties.

    How would you change things on the harder settings? What would feel more fair to you?



    I think this one is VERY subjective. Groups have to deal with scaling that adds more enemies and more damage in order to compensate for the benefits of having teammates. I read A LOT of complaints about people being killed more quickly in groups when all the enemies focus on them.

    And besides, anything below heroic doesn't matter for this point. You can just continue from the last checkpoint if you die while solo. Whereas heroic starts you over entirely. And heroic is meant to be difficult. I do agree that the inclusion of raids throws balance out the window. And I've argued vehemently against them both times raids have been released. Raids have no place in The Division's group/solo dynamic.




    It is what it is. I don't agree that the AI is a "nightmare". As a 99.9999% solo player, I've learned to adapt and overcome. It's part of the challenge of the game, and part of the challenge of playing solo. I can provide some tips and even a few videos and builds to help with this if you'd like.



    This one I also agree 100% with. I think that most talents aren't very useful. And the ones that are tend to be for niche builds rather than generally being useful. And then there's things like what you described: Sniper Rifles with "Up Close and Personal", or weapons with only 6-7 round mags that have "Steady Handed". It makes no sense.

    I've also argued in favor of being able to recalibrate 1 attribute as well as the talent.
    1. Well, there could certainly be more to strive for in the endgame. At some point you do hit a wall, but there should have been some aspects that could scale indefinitely. Like the SHD watch stats for instance. This alone could counteract the massive HP/armor of enemies if you were to put time and effort into grinding for stats. Like Dragon Age Inquisition in a way, where you can scale to infinity and beyond if you so desire.

    2. Very true. I would rather have all weapons be viable in some way. It incentivices players to pick and choose from a larger selection than just a select few weapons that are deemed "great" and defines a meta.

    3. I would rather have more enemy spawns than bullet-sponges. Limitations or not, there is always a way around that.
    Normal (Red) enemies should deal less damage regardless of difficulty setting, plus their health-pool should be significantly shallower.
    Veteran (Purple) enemies should be a step up from the normal ones in terms of armor, HP and damage. But slightly less than it is today (Not by much, maybe 10-15%)
    Elites (yellow) should be the same as they are today. They are supposed to be the toughest opponents with their respective faction's best equipment and training. However, they should be a rarer encounter, even at the higher difficulties.
    Named enemies should share the base stats with a normal elite, but should pack a little extra armor (counted as damage reduction)

    4.Didn't they fix the horribly imbalanced group-scaling or am I missing something

    5. Whatever the case may be. they could find a way to scale the aggressiveness depending on the group size. As a solo player, getting flanked all the time, and flushed out of cover by grenades or utility gets very old, very fast. - I do know how to play the game, I'm just talking about how tiresome this way of playing is.

    6. In all honesty, they should really tie in talents with individual weapon classes (like "Up close and personal" being exclusively a talent for shotguns)
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  8. #8
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    1. Well, there could certainly be more to strive for in the endgame. At some point you do hit a wall, but there should have been some aspects that could scale indefinitely. Like the SHD watch stats for instance. This alone could counteract the massive HP/armor of enemies if you were to put time and effort into grinding for stats. Like Dragon Age Inquisition in a way, where you can scale to infinity and beyond if you so desire.
    That's a tough one to get right. Taken too far and all challenge gets removed from the game. It would have to come along with infinitely scaling enemies as well, similar to how Diablo 3 does Greater Rifts. As the player gets stronger, so too does access to harder difficulties.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    2. Very true. I would rather have all weapons be viable in some way. It incentivices players to pick and choose from a larger selection than just a select few weapons that are deemed "great" and defines a meta.
    Well, I think right now there's a decent array of non-meta builds that are still very effective. My own preference is the negotiator's dilemma Vector build. There's a ninja-bike shotgun build with adrenalin/intimidate that's basically unkillable with insane damage if played right. There are a few others.

    I think we should be very careful about assuming that because some weapons are bad, that all non-meta weapons are also bad.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    3. I would rather have more enemy spawns than bullet-sponges. Limitations or not, there is always a way around that.
    Normal (Red) enemies should deal less damage regardless of difficulty setting, plus their health-pool should be significantly shallower.
    Veteran (Purple) enemies should be a step up from the normal ones in terms of armor, HP and damage. But slightly less than it is today (Not by much, maybe 10-15%)
    Elites (yellow) should be the same as they are today. They are supposed to be the toughest opponents with their respective faction's best equipment and training. However, they should be a rarer encounter, even at the higher difficulties.
    Named enemies should share the base stats with a normal elite, but should pack a little extra armor (counted as damage reduction)
    I also think more enemies is a better solution. But IIRC the devs said something about the engine having trouble with large crowds, and group scaling is already pretty close to that with 4-man runs. I don't know if there's a way around that.

    But I also want to point out that current enemies in heroic are already borderline too easy for optimized builds. And outright easy for optimized meta builds. Again, if enemy difficulty under the current settings for challenging/heroic are nerfed, then I feel like a new difficulty should be added between heroic and legendary in order to maintain a significant threat to players who are already not being challenged.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    4.Didn't they fix the horribly imbalanced group-scaling or am I missing something
    The adjusted it downward slightly. However, enemies in a 4 man group are still going to hit harder than when soloing on the same difficulty.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    5. Whatever the case may be. they could find a way to scale the aggressiveness depending on the group size. As a solo player, getting flanked all the time, and flushed out of cover by grenades or utility gets very old, very fast. - I do know how to play the game, I'm just talking about how tiresome this way of playing is.
    What you find tiresome, other players find interesting.

    Again, this is something that needs to be handled carefully. My own experiences with flankers is that it adds pressure to keep you from pitching a tent. Adopting a more dynamic and run-n-gun playstyle might be beneficial to you. But having said that, all playstyles should be supported. If a build and talents are centered on staying in one place, then the game should not be overly punishing to that.

    It's a tough one to get right. Things like the upcoming buff to hazard protection, and mod slots being made universal will help A LOT with this issue, I think. Many builds will become stronger overall, and new builds using previously non-viable brand combinations will emerge.

    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    6. In all honesty, they should really tie in talents with individual weapon classes (like "Up close and personal" being exclusively a talent for shotguns)
    I believe that as well. There's no real reason to have weapons drop with nonsense talent combinations. This is something along the same lines as rainbow gear and the solution they're working on for that problem. If they can make armor pieces drop with a bias towards the core the brand normally has, then it should also be possible to have weapons drop with a bias towards talents that make sense for each class.
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  9. #9
    xX_RobinHood_Xx's Avatar Banned
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    Kudo on reaching the end game. I, also reached the end game but i won't leave, why? Coz i am still having fun. Rainbow loot doesn't borther me much, it's a sad part of the game that i learned to deal with.
    I, as a "forum player" (i like that one) play mostly solo for contents gotta feed my poor little youtube channel.

    I still like the fact that i can clear an heroic mission or cp4 solo with just smg or lmg or ar or be a sniper or a skill build.

    Game is missing new contents and still buggy... we are still in the middle of a giant pandemic, never forget that.

    What are the risk you take in order to obtain said rewards??? What risk? It's a video game.

    3. The players are very weak compared to the enemy factions?? No... beam 'em before they reach you.

    Focuse first the one who will spam grenade at you.

    4. Players who favor solo play are being looked down on with angry faces and questioning eyes. It's like we are forced to matchmake in order to get a better chance of clearing missions???

    NO, i as a forum player can solo heroic, and run my world map on heroic (yes i die sometimes)

    5. Overtuned enemies. Due to the way that most enemies are programmed, their aggressiveness is based upon how much % damage a player does to their health. This may not be bad in a group of players. But for a solo player, this behavior is a nightmare to go up against.

    Bro, do you have some proofs of that, or you just made it up?
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  10. #10
    SuspiciousPixel's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nothing lasts forever in a game that isn't built as a live service so it's natural to want to leave after you've accomplished your goals.

    All the best players I knew from Division 1 quit Division 2 after a couple of months. They saw the game going down the same rabbit hole as the first game and they were right.

    Every day I see people wishing for changes but I personally think this game is in maintenance mode and apart from the leaked Skyscraper mode, balancing, eventual bug fixing and rehashed existing content there isn't much life left in this game until Division 3 is released and then the vicious cycle of "we learned from our mistakes in the previous game" will start again paired with marketing hype and everyone suddenly suffering from memory loss.
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