Warmonger issues | Forums

[Siegfried-Z]

Here are some glaring issues i can already see with the Warmonger even before she goes live.

If anyone can see some solution for those points, welcome.

I think she's gonna be a good duelist and i have nothing to say about it. Looks good.

Problems happen when it comes to 4v4.

1/ Her Feats

They are stupidly OP.
All of them combined allow her to deals more dmg while healing herself.
And thats only in a 1v1 scenario. They also allow her to completly negate ganking and annihilate most group fights due to the poison dmg, allow her to keep the midlane due to poison working with minions (wtf), and to end it allow her good gank coordination with Nuxia or Shamzel with her parry bleed in some situations.

So to sum up you want to improve offense but just release a hero which everyone will run away from in any gank, group fight, or fight in the midlane. Why ?

Stefan said just counter it with your own feats. Well yes but no, most heros feats are not adapted for that.
Yesterday in the event mode i and a raider both got killed by the feats despite being heal by a t4 healing banner in a few sec..

2/ Enhanced lights

Why all warmonger lights needs to be enhanced ?

Alex said it was important for her because she can access to her bash after a light.
Well by that logic it is important for any heros with a bash or an UB attack after a light but most did not have enhanced lights. Or at best their light opener and thats all.
Not to mention the others 4 vanguards did not have any enhanced lights (but classes logic never really existed in fh anyway).

3/ Her Dodges

Maybe you should think twice if giving her both a bash and an UB from a neutral dodge is a healthy thing.

Imo if you wanted her to have an ub from side dodges, she should have the bash option only from foward dodge and as a mid chain pressure tool.

Most important concern is about her feats.
Those points 2 and 3 are minor things in comparison i think but deserve to be talked about. Especially the dodges.

Still i will close it on a positive touch, i think she is going to be fun in duel, the cosmetics are really great and at the end the ccu happening soon looks good.

What do you guys think about it ?

[Gaser.]

1: Yeah the corruption needs a dmg nerf and most likely remove the ability to kill minions.

2: Personally I don’t mind it because it highers the pressure, in general I think blocking Lights really should not stop a combo.

3: Im neutral about and will look how it will be in game.

[HyperArmorSalt]

Here are some glaring issues i can already see with the Warmonger even before she goes live.

If anyone can see some solution for those points, welcome.

I think she's gonna be a good duelist and i have nothing to say about it. Looks good.

Problems happen when it comes to 4v4.

1/ Her Feats

They are stupidly OP.
All of them combined allow her to deals more dmg while healing herself.
And thats only in a 1v1 scenario. They also allow her to completly negate ganking and annihilate most group fights due to the poison dmg, allow her to keep the midlane due to poison working with minions (wtf), and to end it allow her good gank coordination with Nuxia or Shamzel with her parry bleed in some situations.

So to sum up you want to improve offense but just release a hero which everyone will run away from in any gank, group fight, or fight in the midlane. Why ?

Stefan said just counter it with your own feats. Well yes but no, most heros feats are not adapted for that.
Yesterday in the event mode i and a raider both got killed by the feats despite being heal by a t4 healing banner in a few sec..

2/ Enhanced lights

Why all warmonger lights needs to be enhanced ?

Alex said it was important for her because she can access to her bash after a light.
Well by that logic it is important for any heros with a bash or an UB attack after a light but most did not have enhanced lights. Or at best their light opener and thats all.
Not to mention the others 4 vanguards did not have any enhanced lights (but classes logic never really existed in fh anyway).

3/ Her Dodges

Maybe you should think twice if giving her both a bash and an UB from a neutral dodge is a healthy thing.

Imo if you wanted her to have an ub from side dodges, she should have the bash option only from foward dodge and as a mid chain pressure tool.

Most important concern is about her feats.
Those points 2 and 3 are minor things in comparison i think but deserve to be talked about. Especially the dodges.

Still i will close it on a positive touch, i think she is going to be fun in duel, the cosmetics are really great and at the end the ccu happening soon looks good.

What do you guys think about it ?

Meh feats 1 not really OP
only affect on group fight but not 1vs1

there feats nuxia have to wipe whole minion with Caltrops without hit enemy minion

Jotunn Salve much more op than Warmonger feats 1'

GIT GUD

people are literary call out every new heroes release are OP
let me explain

people are saying almost everything heroes are op
hulda op
black prior op
sakura op
lawbringer op
shaolin op
warden op
berserker op
tiandi op
jiang jun op
centurion rework op
Light spam op
shield spam op

[Jerichos111]

Meh feats 1 not really OP
only affect on group fight but not 1vs1

there feats nuxia have to wipe whole minion with Caltrops without hit enemy minion

Jotunn Salve much more op than Warmonger feats 1'

GIT GUD

people are literary call out every new heroes release are OP
let me explain

people are saying almost everything heroes are op
hulda op
black prior op
sakura op
lawbringer op
shaolin op
warden op
berserker op
tiandi op
jiang jun op
centurion rework op
Light spam op
shield spam op

Wow.
Just changed your post, cause you have no f***ing clue... yep UB CAN be feinted.

Siegfried explained it... nothing more to say...

[Siegfried-Z]

1: Yeah the corruption needs a dmg nerf and most likely remove the ability to kill minions.

2: Personally I don’t mind it because it highers the pressure, in general I think blocking Lights really should not stop a combo.

3: Im neutral about and will look how it will be in game.

Agree on this logic behind enhanced lights. Then it should be standardized for all and nor stay the privilege of a few.

About last point of course lets see how it goes live. I'm just afraid it is too much from a neutral dodge.

Meh feats 1 not really OP
only affect on group fight but not 1vs1

there feats nuxia have to wipe whole minion with Caltrops without hit enemy minion

Jotunn Salve much more op than Warmonger feats 1'

GIT GUD

people are literary call out every new heroes release are OP
let me explain

people are saying almost everything heroes are op
hulda op
black prior op
sakura op
lawbringer op
shaolin op
warden op
berserker op
tiandi op
jiang jun op
centurion rework op
Light spam op
shield spam op

Well you should try to read properly and understand the reasonning before trying to turn a thread into a childish flame.

Only his feats are op as i said because he can cover a lot of roles and negate a lot of difficulties which are part of the game only thanks to those.

But before discussing it you should have a look at it again and understand how they work because they do have an utility in a 1v1 situation as well.

[Astrad06]

What if they put it aoe but static like a banner? and obviously not T1 XD Ubi seems balance hero for 1vs1 not looking to 4vs4 modes in my opinion

[Knight_Raime]

If PK having enhanced unreactable lights on bleed is skirting the line of imbalanced than having enhanced lights with a combo bash is actually riding the line. Mechanically speaking though they manage to avoid this in my opinion. This is because the bash only gives finishers both uncharged or fully charged and that it seems like her bash can only come after a light for combos. This basically limits how oppressive her bash can be especially in the context of the CCU where bash based attacks are going to be weaker due to giving lights which now not only cost as much stamina as a regular heavy but also are disadvantaged. Still the fact that we now have a hero who doesn't care about guard state doesn't sit right with me even if it does end up being balanced to a point.


As for the dodge unblockable situation I think it's no where near strong. Heck i'd say it's pretty average. The dodge bash can only be done from sides or forward and doesn't have the range/movement of Warden's. Which means she can't play the spacing game with it and as I said bash based offense is going to be weaker. I feel this primarily exists so you have an option if someone happens to be parrying your neutral attack often. Her dodge unblockable heavy is probably going to be useless in a single pick/duel situation. It seems to have next to no I frames, is rather slow, and is decently vulnerable to GB. It has no armor or soft feints either. This move exists purely for anti gank/team fighting situations in my opinion. As dodge into bash in those situations just feeds too much revenge.


I think overall she'll be like the inverse of Warden. Warden is great in duels/single picks but rather poor in team fights and anti gank. Where as i'd say Monger is probably only going to be average in duels but potentially great in 4's. (I say potentially great as we need to see how good her tracking/range/AoE of her moves are for peeling, chasing, and off target attacking is.) Though if we only look at her feats i'd say she's broken in 4's and i'd be really surprised if she isn't outright banned for comp play (which afaik has not happened in a really long time.)


Overall I like her. A good mix of armor and not hyper fantasy weapon designs. Actual focus on chain based offense that's not just attack into bash or neutral into unblockable. And the fact that she actually thrusts with one of her attacks. (two if you want to count the parry counter.) Though i'm probably going to stick to duels and brawls until her feats are addressed. I already don't want to deal with one Monger with her feats. I'd rather uninstall my game than fight a team with 2 or more of them at once.

[Knight_Raime]

Meh feats 1 not really OP
only affect on group fight but not 1vs1

there feats nuxia have to wipe whole minion with Caltrops without hit enemy minion

Jotunn Salve much more op than Warmonger feats 1'

GIT GUD

people are literary call out every new heroes release are OP
let me explain

people are saying almost everything heroes are op
hulda op
black prior op
sakura op
lawbringer op
shaolin op
warden op
berserker op
tiandi op
jiang jun op
centurion rework op
Light spam op
shield spam op

Her T1 is busted because of how much it does considering it's only a T1.

The minimum time needed for a successful stall for dominion is 10 seconds. Her T1 is 15 seconds long and on a short CD because of it being a T1. This means by default you're going to turtle for 15 seconds. You definitely don't want to be in minion lane with her T1 up because if she applies it to you that instant kills any of your minions near by. This forces you to leave minion lane for however long the corruption lasts. Giving up a point is NEVER a good thing to do. Finally her T1 actually becomes better later on with her T2 and T3.

You can argue that if you're infected and you leave that someone can just rotate in for you since B point typically has 2 active players on either side. However she has a T4 which can apply the corruption to multiple people. And it forces multiple people to give up most points on most maps. Even if the CD is long enough to only be really usable once a match it still can swing fights incredibly hard which would determine the match winner. We already see this with feats like fire flask. Or just minor bad plays.

Her entire set of feats is a stalling feat that effects people in an AoE. The fact that her T1 has that much going for it is absolutely busted. It's also flat out incorrect to say it doesn't effect 1v1. Applying it gives her free damage on you. You don't need to have someone else in the circle for it to do damage. That just makes it damage others. Once she gets her T2 and T3 she's actively surviving in 1's more and doing more damage in them ON TOP OF buffing the DoT of corruption itself.


Nuxia's caltrops cannot be buffed to insane levels of damage, effect a static area only, and also hurt her allies/kill her minions. They're far more balanced. Infection does less damage than corruption does and requires at least 1 other person to be near by for the damage to start happening to both players. Not to mention neither feats actually buff Nuxia like Monger's do. Even if Nuxia drops her caltrops at your feet you can still leave their AoE. You can't do that if you have corruption.

This isn't a matter of getting good. It's clearly awful design and defending them only shows your lack of understanding on how dominion plays. Even if any of the people you mentioned had issues on release that were anywhere near Monger's issues that doesn't excuse the inclusion of more broken things.

[Siegfried-Z]

What if they put it aoe but static like a banner? and obviously not T1 XD Ubi seems balance hero for 1vs1 not looking to 4vs4 modes in my opinion

Not sure a banner whould fit it. Still i have no suggestions so far about how to fix her feats.
Problem is she will already be very dangerous with only the t1 unlock.
Not even speaking about how ridiculously strong she will be at max reknown..

If PK having enhanced unreactable lights on bleed is skirting the line of imbalanced than having enhanced lights with a combo bash is actually riding the line. Mechanically speaking though they manage to avoid this in my opinion. This is because the bash only gives finishers both uncharged or fully charged and that it seems like her bash can only come after a light for combos. This basically limits how oppressive her bash can be especially in the context of the CCU where bash based attacks are going to be weaker due to giving lights which now not only cost as much stamina as a regular heavy but also are disadvantaged. Still the fact that we now have a hero who doesn't care about guard state doesn't sit right with me even if it does end up being balanced to a point.


As for the dodge unblockable situation I think it's no where near strong. Heck i'd say it's pretty average. The dodge bash can only be done from sides or forward and doesn't have the range/movement of Warden's. Which means she can't play the spacing game with it and as I said bash based offense is going to be weaker. I feel this primarily exists so you have an option if someone happens to be parrying your neutral attack often. Her dodge unblockable heavy is probably going to be useless in a single pick/duel situation. It seems to have next to no I frames, is rather slow, and is decently vulnerable to GB. It has no armor or soft feints either. This move exists purely for anti gank/team fighting situations in my opinion. As dodge into bash in those situations just feeds too much revenge.


I think overall she'll be like the inverse of Warden. Warden is great in duels/single picks but rather poor in team fights and anti gank. Where as i'd say Monger is probably only going to be average in duels but potentially great in 4's. (I say potentially great as we need to see how good her tracking/range/AoE of her moves are for peeling, chasing, and off target attacking is.) Though if we only look at her feats i'd say she's broken in 4's and i'd be really surprised if she isn't outright banned for comp play (which afaik has not happened in a really long time.)


Overall I like her. A good mix of armor and not hyper fantasy weapon designs. Actual focus on chain based offense that's not just attack into bash or neutral into unblockable. And the fact that she actually thrusts with one of her attacks. (two if you want to count the parry counter.) Though i'm probably going to stick to duels and brawls until her feats are addressed. I already don't want to deal with one Monger with her feats. I'd rather uninstall my game than fight a team with 2 or more of them at once.

It is true bash gonna be slighly weaker with the ccu update.
Her bash may confirm her finisher but i've seen that you will have a frame advantage after a heavy finisher which could make the charged option more efficient.

About the UB side dodges, i do agree it is not going to be really efficient in duel at this point. As often i am a bit too focus on the 4v4 perspective. Still as you and Gaser says we have to see how all the details you talked about regarding those dodges will perform once live before judging the moove.
I wanted to share it as something we should pay attention once she will be payable.

I also fully agree with your last 2 paragraphs comparing her usefulness with Warden.
Her strengh will mostly be 4v4, while she will probably be somewhere decent in duels and i also really like her kit overall, it is a dynamic and mobile gameplay, 2 things i appreciate.

But her feats may be a real problem and we did not need the live version to see it .. i hope the team will be able to find a quick solution because if not 4v4 will become a poison fest with everyone running from each others..

[Knight_Raime]

It is true bash gonna be slighly weaker with the ccu update.
Her bash may confirm her finisher but i've seen that you will have a frame advantage after a heavy finisher which could make the charged option more efficient.

About the UB side dodges, i do agree it is not going to be really efficient in duel at this point. As often i am a bit too focus on the 4v4 perspective. Still as you and Gaser says we have to see how all the details you talked about regarding those dodges will perform once live before judging the moove.
I wanted to share it as something we should pay attention once she will be payable.

I also fully agree with your last 2 paragraphs comparing her usefulness with Warden.
Her strengh will mostly be 4v4, while she will probably be somewhere decent in duels and i also really like her kit overall, it is a dynamic and mobile gameplay, 2 things i appreciate.

But her feats may be a real problem and we did not need the live version to see it .. i hope the team will be able to find a quick solution because if not 4v4 will become a poison fest with everyone running from each others..

Yeah heavies having advantage is good incentive for some charged bashes. Though I feel it's mostly only going to be notably worth it for Monger since she doesn't get continued chain pressure. Warden still has a very good neutral bash, hitokiri's recovery on sweep is still probably awful and it only gives her a light which means she'd be disadvantaged anyway. And Cent gets a cutscene attack so it don't effect him.

I think really the most notable thing about the dodge UB heavy is that it might be fast enough to punish some moves but too slow to reaction punish most things. If it's 800ms I can see it punishing dodge bash offense on early dodge. if it's 900ms though i'm not sure.

I mean from where i'm sitting I think the feats are easily fixable. The issue really isn't finding a solution more so is it how the devs usually address feat imbalances. Which means they will likely be gutted. Better for the health of the game but absolutely awful for the character in terms of options.