Warmonger has Appollyon's Moves, Maybe Now Give Orochi Tozen's Kick? | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

Well I dunno, maybe they're using him as a test character for the new changes since he was the most complained about to see if they're going to normalize it or not? That's my best guess

It's possible sure. Not really a change i'd be for without making said kits better compensation wise. Of which i'm not convinced the UB will do enough for rochi in higher level play. But we will see.

[jortakk]

Technical 400ms wont work in the end, they are fine for opening light, but for any meaningful pressure they won't work. They will take some time getting used to sure, but they aren't viable offense by themselves. Orochi's 400ms attack was delayable to 333ms, factoring in guard switch time of 100ms that gave you 233ms to react, which is impossible for 95% of the playerbase (average reaction time is 250ms). What they've done is hid the first 100ms of the attack but taken out the delayable part, so a 500ms attack (what orochi's chain light would be) has a 400ms indicator, factoring in the 100ms guard switch time of 100ms, that gives you 300ms to react, which is greater than 250ms, therefore reactable (and gives you 66 more ms to react than before).

The first 100ms of most indicators will be missing, effectively speeding up everything by 33ms. This includes bashes. There will be 400ms bashes in the game (shaman's will be 300ms) that guarantee more damage, but for some reason, orochi's 400ms lights were a problem (i am in no way encouraging that bashes should be slowed down, just making a point). The hidden indicator changes are great, its just that I beliece orochi's changes are just plain spiteful and not well thought out.

[Mikebeenice]

Sorry to say but Warmonger IS a warden with recycled moves from that include Orochi, Tiandi and even Hitokiri. The new hero looks cool but lets be real and acknowledge the fact that the characters move-set is recycled .

[Gaser.]

Sorry to say but Warmonger IS a warden with recycled moves from that include Orochi, Tiandi and even Hitokiri. The new hero looks cool but lets be real and acknowledge the fact that the characters move-set is recycled .

Who cares if the animations are recycled as long as the animation look fitting and reasonable, I don’t really mind.

[Qoissant]

Sorry to say but Warmonger IS a warden with recycled moves from that include Orochi, Tiandi and even Hitokiri. The new hero looks cool but lets be real and acknowledge the fact that the characters move-set is recycled .

How can they be recycled when they are all almost from apolyon who came at least 2 years before tiandi&hito. Apolyon is basically a warden but wardens are supposed to be your good guy white knight where warmongers could be seen as the opposite. Apolyon was all about the one handed and sloppy fighting with a two handed sword while wearing a billion pounds of armour. She had like 2 moves similar to warden but was ultimately unique enough to make an entire character out of that. The new war monger is LITERALLY apolyon with modern day 'balance' applied. It looks like warmonger is gonna have some crazy unique feats which i am super excited for as well

I ain't gonna acknowledge that its a recycled moveset because it is factually not, i paid attention to the bots, there is no other hero throwing out those types of moves with those animations. Especially the ones you mentioned. The only similarity is the chargeable bash which just seems to be the new meta the devs wanna use right now as like 5 other heroes mixups revolve around charging a bash or unblockable.

[Gaser.]

How can they be recycled when they are all almost from apolyon who came at least 2 years before tiandi&hito. Apolyon is basically a warden but wardens are supposed to be your good guy white knight where warmongers could be seen as the opposite. Apolyon was all about the one handed and sloppy fighting with a two handed sword while wearing a billion pounds of armour. She had like 2 moves similar to warden but was ultimately unique enough to make an entire character out of that. The new war monger is LITERALLY apolyon with modern day 'balance' applied. It looks like warmonger is gonna have some crazy unique feats which i am super excited for as well

I ain't gonna acknowledge that its a recycled moveset because it is factually not, i paid attention to the bots, there is no other hero throwing out those types of moves with those animations. Especially the ones you mentioned. The only similarity is the chargeable bash which just seems to be the new meta the devs wanna use right now as like 5 other heroes mixups revolve around charging a bash or unblockable.

I think they only gave her a few warden moves to show that she trained as a Warden once too. (Don’t know if it is mentioned in game but it’s definitely in the written lore of the Game)

[Qoissant]

I think they only gave her a few warden moves to show that she trained as a Warden once too. (Don’t know if it is mentioned in game but it’s definitely in the written lore of the Game)

I mean yeah the way she does her side lights are pretty much the same. From what i understand warmongers are no different than wardens aside from political/moral beliefs. They both start off training as wardens the exact same as one another. Warmongers become a reality when a warden starts moving towards power hungry/selfish motives, their fighting style gets a little more crazed and they throw some cheap tactics in there. As the name implies they are likely followers of apolyon who was the extreme warmonger.

I think apolyon was just a little girl who saw her village get slapped so she became a warden, moved to her selfish desires of wanting to just see the world burn and take what she witnessed as a child to the extreme because she was convinced there can only be war and nothing else. Technically wardens that joined her would be warmongers as well but obviously they wanted apolyon to be super unique so they just gave blackstone wardens your normal warden moveset instead of just making a bunch of mini apolyons.

I think they do want to highlight that warmongers aren't some secret sect of nights that come from somewhere outside of lore like Vortiger, glad or cent. They are just the other side of the warden coin.So it totally makes sense that their armour and the odd move are similar at the core.

[Gaser.]

I mean yeah the way she does her side lights are pretty much the same. From what i understand warmongers are no different than wardens aside from political/moral beliefs. They both start off training as wardens the exact same as one another. Warmongers become a reality when a warden starts moving towards power hungry/selfish motives, their fighting style gets a little more crazed and they throw some cheap tactics in there. As the name implies they are likely followers of apolyon who was the extreme warmonger.

I think apolyon was just a little girl who saw her village get slapped so she became a warden, moved to her selfish desires of wanting to just see the world burn and take what she witnessed as a child to the extreme because she was convinced there can only be war and nothing else. Technically wardens that joined her would be warmongers as well but obviously they wanted apolyon to be super unique so they just gave blackstone wardens your normal warden moveset instead of just making a bunch of mini apolyons.

I think they do want to highlight that warmongers aren't some secret sect of nights that come from somewhere outside of lore like Vortiger, glad or cent. They are just the other side of the warden coin.So it totally makes sense that their armour and the odd move are similar at the core.

Pretty much but I have to admit the stance bothers me, it’s really similar to tiandis.

I don’t mind if they hold the sword with one hand while in top guard (like in that cutscene where you see Apollyon for the first time and she fights) but the side guards should definitely more behave like wardens side guards.


But the rest of the ”reused” animation is besides one move that looks similar to highlander, from warden which is fine because Apollyons normal lights and heavys are from warden too.

[Knight_Raime]

How can they be recycled when they are all almost from apolyon who came at least 2 years before tiandi&hito. Apolyon is basically a warden but wardens are supposed to be your good guy white knight where warmongers could be seen as the opposite. Apolyon was all about the one handed and sloppy fighting with a two handed sword while wearing a billion pounds of armour. She had like 2 moves similar to warden but was ultimately unique enough to make an entire character out of that. The new war monger is LITERALLY apolyon with modern day 'balance' applied. It looks like warmonger is gonna have some crazy unique feats which i am super excited for as well

I ain't gonna acknowledge that its a recycled moveset because it is factually not, i paid attention to the bots, there is no other hero throwing out those types of moves with those animations. Especially the ones you mentioned. The only similarity is the chargeable bash which just seems to be the new meta the devs wanna use right now as like 5 other heroes mixups revolve around charging a bash or unblockable.

Technically speaking none of the animations Warmonger uses are 100% original. Any move that looks like Wardens is Wardens 1:1 with no changes. All of Apollyon's moves have been sped up or modified to be else where in this person's kit rather than where they used to be. Tiandi's stance, hitokiri's zone, Orochi second chain side light, and Centurion's GB animations are all in there but modified to varying degrees.
But as i've said in other discussions about this the problem isn't weather they did or didn't re-use assets. It's the fact that hero identity is partially tied to their weapon. When you have a hero using things that seem familiar it makes them feel less like their own person. Which for some cheapens the experience of brand new content.


I think this hero can be looked at 1 of 2 ways. Either you're with the current mob mentality of her being a "lazy cash grab" hero that flipped assets to make an easy quick buck. Or you're in the camp of thinking the hero is meant to be a love letter to the community. We've been asking for a Warden that uses a sword, more plate armor, Apollyon moves/armor, a plume, more capes, a zwei wielding knight, horns for a helmet, etc. There's a lot of what we've been wanting in some form or another with this character. The deal breaker just seems to be that people wanted this specifically for Warden (outside the zwei that is.) But because the devs don't change hero identity with reworks they could only bring these things in a new hero.


For me i'm more interested in how she plays mechanically. Since it seems like she doesn't care about guard state in the slightest. And her bash isn't something you use to chain into repeated offense like other charge bash heros. I think both levels of her bash only net you finishers.

[EvoX.]

Her light finisher after a landed level 1 bash is actually Warden's ''Sword Point'' combat emote...

The recycling is pretty up there, I'm still hoping at least the identical animations are just placeholders. I know that this can be attributed to COVID making mo-cap impossible, but it's just regrettable that such a potentially interesting hero will most likely have its image plagued with recycled animations.