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  1. #21
    KrayZee_'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by WildCassowary Go to original post
    The amigos should have their on little skill tree like they had in New dawn, but expanded to some point. That would have been a reason to actually play with all of them for some time and not pick one ot two only.
    Just like the randomly generated Guns for Hire in Far Cry 5. I'm sure Ubisoft would expand on that.
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  2. #22
    Originally Posted by HorTyS Go to original post
    I mentioned this in another thread but I don't think the challenges system should be thrown out completely, but it should not be the primary means of acquiring skill points. They need to combine these systems. Skill points should be gained through XP, and they could retain the challenges and just have them reward you with larger amounts of XP. This would prevent players from feeling forced to use weapons they don't care for to level up while also rewarding those who give the game's whole arsenal a try, all while not preventing either group from progressing.

    I don't think it really makes sense for the AI companions' kills to reward the player with XP though. XP is just short hand for experience, but the player character gains no 'experience' from the actions of another character so I don't really agree with that bit myself...
    But regardless of the reward ammount gained from kill challenges, they still tie these specific actions to skill point gain. The reward from using as many weapons and skills as possible, should be that diversity in of it self.

    As for AI companions I agree with you completely. It wouldn't make sense at all for their kills to give you xp. Could even be annoying with the XP feedback enabled. With all the kill challenges out of the way, suddenly there's nothing to compete with your Amigos over- no more nuisance in them killing off your target in the middle of a takedown or at the end of a weapon challenge- just beautiful team work <3
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  3. #23
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
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    I really don't see incentivizing players to use the bredth of the game's weapons as a bad thing. I already know there will be weapons I don't particularly care for but I'm not vehemently against the game rewarding me for using them. It's not like the challenges are so demanding you're forced to use weapons you don't care for for a significant amount of time.

    To me there is a huge difference between a scenario where I have to use a sniper rifle, a weapon I don't particularly care for, and get X number of kills in order to unlock 2 skill points and a situation where if I use the muffler gun to get X number of kills, I'll get 500XP which is all I need to level up, or I could continue using the weapons I have, which would take longer to accumulate that amount of XP, but I'll still eventually get that skill point. Removal of the challenges entirely is pointless, I mean why remove them? Why not retain these additional options for players to experiment and provide an incentive to do so? Seems pretty absurd to me.
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  4. #24
    Yeah, and with my idea of perk point gain you can stick to immersing yourself into the awesome, overhauled sets of maneuvre animations, gunplay and gameworld mechanics- using the weapons you either find most fun OR suitable for all the countless waves of perk point yielding hostage situations, convoy heists, lieutenant hits etc etc... there are so many new ways to enrich the gameworld with XP yielding activities, that the filler of kill challenges shouldn't be necessary at all.

    If there are weapons you won't like using, surely it would be better if perk point gain was instead emphathized for other activites that are less of a chore than the kill challenges for these weapons?
    Why remove the kill challenges indeed.... no, doesn't seem absurd at all actually.
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  5. #25
    Main problem in terms of non direct gameplay things in Far Cry games has always been the economy for me. You get tons of money, far too much, and end up having bought everything way too quickly. I remember throuwing away cash in useless armors and syringes just to be able to have another message than "wallet full" on screen when looting a dude automatically.

    Business weapon skins or fancy cars is not even remotely costly past a certain point of the game. Sadly, i don t really see how this particular problem would be solved unless if used in things like the Ghale's house in FC4 (still not spendy enough).
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  6. #26
    @WildCassowary
    Perhaps money can be spent by paying underground networks to smuggle wanted people out of the country. In exchange, your XP gain % might increase, or whatever counts as Resistance Points gets increased, furthering either story or hardening your fellow freedom fighters to better survive encounters with wild life and regime soldiers.

    Perhaps the story ending can depend on how much you fund the underground networks in undermining the regime. If enough people escape(from an isolated frkn island) to tell about the regime, the outside countries can become increasingly abled in intervening somehow- for a larger scale ending, diplomatic or invasion like.
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  7. #27
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Borkaman87 Go to original post
    Yeah, and with my idea of perk point gain you can stick to immersing yourself into the awesome, overhauled sets of maneuvre animations, gunplay and gameworld mechanics- using the weapons you either find most fun OR suitable for all the countless waves of perk point yielding hostage situations, convoy heists, lieutenant hits etc etc... there are so many new ways to enrich the gameworld with XP yielding activities, that the filler of kill challenges shouldn't be necessary at all.

    If there are weapons you won't like using, surely it would be better if perk point gain was instead emphathized for other activites that are less of a chore than the kill challenges for these weapons?
    Why remove the kill challenges indeed.... no, doesn't seem absurd at all actually.

    Well it actually still is a fairly absurd because nothing you listed there would be prevented or negatively impacted by the existence of additional, optional challenges. At no point in any of this back and forth has it ever once been suggested that these challenges would be necessary for progression in any way, rather I simply proposed they could add an extra incentive players could choose to take advantage of. You're resistant to the idea of challenges that task a player with using specific weapons as if every single person who plays the game all have certain weapons they despise using in the slightest bit but then suggest the game should constantly barrage them with activities by which to gain XP as if none of those events get boring or frustrating in the same way, yet those activities would be dynamic and outside the player's control. The outright dismissal of one idea only to suggest a replacement that some players would find equally frustrating feels counter productive. I'm not super gung-ho about such a feature, but implemented in a way similar to what has been outlined would not be detrimental in the slightest...
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  8. #28
    I'm of the opinion that skill trees should have a lot less impact on your abilities than in previous FCs. FC2 style, with five times the event variety and maneuvre control. This would greatly move focus from harvesting skill points, to further enjoying what hopefully will be overhauled spawn systems, melee combat, gunplay and exploration. You assume players will find the XP yielding events to become tedious, but if they're varied enough in type, location and numbers of enemies/civilians/wild life- such events will just make for fun GAMEPLAY and even problemsolving. However, they would indeed be negated by weapon challenges. Realizing the flamethrower/shotgun/RPG an enemy just dropped is your only way to unlock your jetpack or an extra holster for example, you disgard your assault rifle- leading to a distant hostage situation or skirmish to go bad because of range restriction or the fact that RPGs kill everytning.
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  9. #29
    Formula is simple:

    1) Challenge, suffering
    2) Overcoming
    3) JOY!

    It applies to everything in the game.

    First: we meet challenge.
    Then we suffer.
    We need something.
    (Without it we suffer.)

    Second: we get something that we needed.
    We're overcoming difficulties.
    JOY!

    Suffering and JOY are two sides of one coin.
    Without suffering and need there will be no JOY, in the game.

    Good game consist of these many JOY's.

    To give us JOY developers first should give us suffering and need of something.
    Developers should organize that need.
    They should create suffering first.

    CHALLENGE - NEED - SUFFERING

    Then we should get something that will help us to overcome it.
    Overcoming it we feel relief, JOY.
    "I did it!"

    The more suffering - the more JOY will be as reward.

    Well-ballanced they make good and memorable game.


    That's why in the beginning of the game we should be weak and worthless.
    We should crawl and crawl afraid of sticking our noses out.

    We should suffer and suffer, we should be in need and need.

    Each time overcoming another obstacle we will feel JOY.

    But as we become stronger......new stronger obstacles should appear.
    To keep need and suffering further.
    To organize future JOYs.

    We're overcoming old obstacles and we're enjoing our new strength for some time.
    Then new suffering and need should come.

    "New strength enjoing" also should be.
    Not only challenge and challenge without ending.

    Developers should give gamers time to enjoy their new force, to enjoy their superiority.

    We're enjoing it ....enjoing......and later we're fed up with that.
    Before that "we're fed up" - new challenge should appear.

    Not after!


    CHALLENGE - NEED - SUFFERING + OVERCOMING = JOY

    First step.
    Then.

    JOY.....ENJOING NEW FORCE.....JOy.....Joy......joy.....+ NEW CHALLENGE -SUFFERING - NEED + OVERCOMING = JOY.


    It's like a ladder.
    We take one step then another.
    Only we're not going on fast.
    We're standing a little bit on each step.
    Developers give us opportunity to enjoy our new force, for some time, before new challenge.


    It applies to everything in the game.
    Enemies, weapons, money, perks, resources, crafting....

    Game shouldn't be easy.
    At the same time it shouldn't be some masochistic ordeal.

    Ballance - is the key to success.

    (And as usual....the devil is in the details.)
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  10. #30
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Borkaman87 Go to original post
    I'm of the opinion that skill trees should have a lot less impact on your abilities than in previous FCs. FC2 style, with five times the event variety and maneuvre control. This would greatly move focus from harvesting skill points, to further enjoying what hopefully will be overhauled spawn systems, melee combat, gunplay and exploration. You assume players will find the XP yielding events to become tedious, but if they're varied enough in type, location and numbers of enemies/civilians/wild life- such events will just make for fun GAMEPLAY and even problemsolving. However, they would indeed be negated by weapon challenges. Realizing the flamethrower/shotgun/RPG an enemy just dropped is your only way to unlock your jetpack or an extra holster for example, you disgard your assault rifle- leading to a distant hostage situation or skirmish to go bad because of range restriction or the fact that RPGs kill everytning.
    Ok, well this just confirmed my suspicion that you've not at all understood what I've been suggesting about hypothetical changes to a challenge system verifying the ever growing feeling of futility in trying to explain it. I'll leave you to it.
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