Shinobi is unplayble | Forums

[Siegfried-Z]

Wow, thank you for the completely unnecessary insult. Way to show class and intelligence. Bravo.

Funny thing about opinions, that’s all they are. So @you and Chump94, let’s see these magical numbers please. Show your evidence.

In fact you did not help Vendelkin with his reading understanding because he was right.

How is it an insult to just highlight what you told yourself ? You said your friend is far better than you while having like half your reps.

My word are, this just proof reps does not mean much in terms of level. So we say the same thing here.
And i highlight it because you saying this, plus trying to argue Shinobi is strong and doing so with an argue like "my friend can perform with him" .. all of that together told me you lack some understandings. And there are no insult here, really.

I am not the kind of forum members which is here to start flame or anything like this.

If you want to know i think i am able to perform correctly with pretty much every heros as well .. lately i've started to rep up Zhanhu and now i have 2 reps with him and i had almost only wins and very good game with him.
It does not change that this hero is lacking. See ?

Anyway i don't know what magical number you are expecting but you are right, opinion are just opinion and as i already told you you are free to have yours.

You should just know that you will not be taken seriously by saying Shinobi is strong and does not need a rework.

[Vendelkin]

Fair enough, but always assuming the worst of the words another person says is never a good thing, and as you said it really isn't an insult to highlight what the other person just said.

Back towards Lone, community polls were literally the numbers you were asking for were they not? and I did provide numbers, valid statistics, in fact via what I linked.

Saying polls of opinions are still just opinions is verging on perceived reality denial. Some things we trust because it fits our narrative, and some details we ignore because they go against our stance.

Offering up an anecdote of one person you know as evidence, but then denying the value of polls that are a conglomeration of multiple peoples anecdotal feelings on the matter is somewhat flawed since it is literally the extension of the input you offered.

But you are right to some degree. Science actually cant prove anything, we just gather lots of evidence and then make our best guess. This is why we have the "theory of gravity" and "theory of tectonic plates" So yeah. polls are just opinions, but they are still better data than a single anecdote.

[Siegfried-Z]

Fair enough, but always assuming the worst of the words another person says is never a good thing, and as you said it really isn't an insult to highlight what the other person just said.
.

Yep, thats why i told him he was wrong and you was right in your understanding of my words

[MrBdur]

I can guarantee you my friend can 1v1, 2v1, 3v1, or 4v1 and still come out on top with the Shin. Although honestly, he can do this with just about every one of the toons. He is easily a top tier player and I often will just go and watch him play. This tells me Shin is fine.

Lol. Shinobi isn't fine.

I am a rep 265, diamond ranked player.

I can perform well with all heroes too, against lesser skilled opponents.

Equal skilled opponents however, I can't do a thing with shinobi.

Also, I guarantee your buddy wouldn't be able to beat my main with shinobi. I would crush his shinobi cuz shinobi is weak.

[Lone_Wolf_X]

How is it an insult to just highlight what you told yourself ? You said your friend is far better than you while having like half your reps.

Because I never said I was a bad player? You know what you meant. Irregardless, it was insulting. Like I said: reading comprehension.

I am not the kind of forum members which is here to start flame or anything like this.

And yet, you did multiple times in this thread. First you called me inexperienced, then skill-less.

Anyway i don't know what magical number you are expecting but you are right, opinion are just opinion and as i already told you you are free to have yours.

What numbers? The evidence for your facts to say that Shin is unplayable. You make a point, you need to prove it. Simple as that. Otherwise, as you finally realize, it’s just opinion, and guess what? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions, are neither wrong, nor are they right.

You should just know that you will not be taken seriously by saying Shinobi is strong and does not need a rework.

Why? Because my opinion doesn’t count? Why would that be? Of course, because it’s different than yours. Funny how that works for you. Also, once again, reading comprehension bub. I never said Shin was strong at all. I said he’s fine, with the exception of the parried, thrown guard break punish.

[Siegfried-Z]

Because I never said I was a bad player? You know what you meant. Irregardless, it was insulting. Like I said: reading comprehension.

And yet, you did multiple times in this thread. First you called me inexperienced, then skill-less.

What numbers? The evidence for your facts to say that Shin is unplayable. You make a point, you need to prove it. Simple as that. Otherwise, as you finally realize, it’s just opinion, and guess what? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions, are neither wrong, nor are they right.

Why? Because my opinion doesn’t count? Why would that be? Of course, because it’s different than yours. Funny how that works for you. Also, once again, reading comprehension bub. I never said Shin was strong at all. I said he’s fine, with the exception of the parried, thrown guard break punish.

It looks i hurt you in my comment, it wasn't my intention. Sorry if you felt it that way.

In fact i don't have to put here any figures, first of all because others already did it and also because it is just a blatant thing he needs a rework.

Also excuse me but you can't tell people to proove their point when your argue is litteraly having a friend doing well with Shino.

Even if figures show the poor state of Shinobi we can just acknowledge how lacking and flawed his kit currently is in a simple look.

4v4 speaking if he wants to have a chance he has to run from fights and abuse his rotation. Also try some slide kick or range gb here and there while this last one is very hard to get now due to all the recovery reduction.
His only good things is his healing t4 feat.

1v1 speaking he has to keep spacing in order to frustrate opponent and hope he will do a mistake.
Stay defensive in order to use his overtuned dmg on deflect. That and a pretty decent option select is the only thing he has.

Really it is surprising there are still people who did not acknowledge how a rework is needed.

But i will then ask you to explain in your opinion what in Shinobi's kit makes him a strong pick ?

And don't use your friend as an argue again, i can do well with Shinobi too against the average player, that's not an argue.

When you know all the data showed Shino at the bottom in all modes or close to and that the vast majority of players at all skills level do agree he needs one, what is pushing you to believe he should not get it ?

[Vendelkin]

I never said Shin was strong at all. I said he’s fine

Shin is in a pretty good place right now.

Most people would read "Pretty good place" as strong, or at the very least balanced. Shinobi is neither. He is statistically the weakest, and metrically when looking at his numbers both imbalanced within his own kit/hp/dmg, and on the weaker side of general balance metrically as well other than his deflect.

And you've expressed your opinion, but still never offered anything other than: 'my friend is good with him'

Thats it. that's all you've given us.

[Porch-]

I don't know what else to say on this Shinobi thread. He's ranked tier C and at the lowest percentage. Shinobi's attacks aren't the strongest besides his deflects and sickle rain. Kicks are easy to dodge, easy to get guard broke when dodging afer smoke dodge/kick, and the backflip will either get you safe, hit, or guard broke - practically useless. Shinobi will most likely lose a gank due to you can spam guard break and catch Shinobi after every attack. Don't forget, light spam will just end your whole kick. Not to mention, his very low health pool. Shinobi has received numerous nerfs and another this season on his option select. I just don't understand... Ubisoft doesn't want to revert Shinobi because it'd be "OP." (Duh). So, why hasn't there been a rework? Its obvious Shinobi is in desperate of needing one. There's been so many suggestions and complaints like this thread on reworking or reverting Shinobi. And yet, nothing has been done... yet.

Edit: Since his health pool is very low, he is a risk or reward type of character. You mess up once, you're either dead or close to being dead. I'm tired of the Samurai being ignored and left in the dust.

[Lone_Wolf_X]

Most people would read "Pretty good place" as strong, or at the very least balanced. Shinobi is neither. He is statistically the weakest, and metrically when looking at his numbers both imbalanced within his own kit/hp/dmg, and on the weaker side of general balance metrically as well other than his deflect.

And you've expressed your opinion, but still never offered anything other than: 'my friend is good with him'

Thats it. that's all you've given us.

No, no. That’s not how that reads. Balanced =/= strong.

Also, That’s not how balancing works. You can’t just look at raw numbers on his kit alone. You have to look at play statistics across the game too that you and others don’t have access to. Guess who does though? Ubisoft. And they obviously felt he was severely overturned and he was. Doesn’t really matter now anyways, let’s see what Aug 6th does than circle back around to this.

[Chump94]

No, no. That’s not how that reads. Balanced =/= strong.

Also, That’s not how balancing works. You can’t just look at raw numbers on his kit alone. You have to look at play statistics across the game too that you and others don’t have access to. Guess who does though? Ubisoft. And they obviously felt he was severely overturned and he was. Doesn’t really matter now anyways, let’s see what Aug 6th does than circle back around to this.

Well if you want the stats from ubisoft here they are https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en...ance-hope-y4s1 . as you can see even in dominion (where he performs the best becuz of ganking) he's still at the bottom which correct me if I'm wrong I don't think has changed since I started playing since the warden rework.