Shinobi is unplayble | Forums

[TheUberDome]

Do you believe that the current state of shinobi is more viable than how he was at launch? There are many heroes with hyperarmour on their bashes, why is that not something shinobi can have? Tiandi has GB immunity on the last 50% of his dodge, why can't shinobi have that? Why can't you give him tools other heroes have? Why do you not talk about the hero? Should we just assume the hero is dead?

[Porch-]

Shinobi is slowly being degraded away. The hero has received numerous nerfs, complaints from users playing the hero, and suggestions/buffs to overall improve Shinobi. However, it seems Shinobi and the suggestions are being neglected by the developers. I'm still trying to comprehend the individuals who claim Shinobi is still "viable" or "more viable than before." The hero is dead and his/her corpse just keeps on getting kicked every season.

Shinobi's light attacks are useful but are easily led to the hero's downfall when versing higher-skilled or higher-tiered heroes/players. The reason I state this is because his health pool is very low and inadequate; so when the hero is parried, his health is pretty much non-existent. Shinobi is a risk or reward type of hero (in my opinion.) If a Shinobi makes one mistake, consider the hero dead or very close to being dead. His deflects are very deadly and I will admit that. Shinobi's kicks are a laughable joke. Easily dodged and heroes with dodge attacks will take advantage in that. Not to mention to the folks who claim "just wait for the attack" - well, half the time you go for kicks, the opponent is light-spamming and interrupts every kick. That's where the hyper-armor came into play. Especially, heroes with more than one light attack chain. Shinobi's dodges aren't worth it half the time. In fact, most of the time you go for dodge/kick, you most likely will get guard broke out of it. And, since Shinobi's kit is built for counter-attacking, people will faint an attack and go for an easy guard break since the Shinobi will most likely go in for a kick. The same thing with the backflip - some attacks will reach it or the guard break will occur.

If you don't want to revert Shinobi back then I'd advise reworking him. Buffing and offering more combos to assist in 1v1's and ganks. Nerfing him ain't solving the problem. Majority of Shinobis hide behind their teammates because they have terrible defense and abuse their range fighting. There's plenty of rework suggestions for Shinobi. Take what you like and write it down for a rough draft. Compare and contrast - look at the pros and cons. There's a lot of post on Shinobi for a rework or buff(s.) (I wonder why).

REWORK IS NEEDED

[Valoredramack]

I don't believe reverting him is a viable thing to do right now. However, if you were able to give Shin back one feature that got nerfed, what would it be?

The Dev Team doesn't know what they're doing if they still haven't figured it out by now, the Shinobi has been unplayable ever since August 2019.

Patch 2.11 was a complete failure, which is why threads like this are asking to revert the changes.

You people have already received plenty of feedback about the Shinobi and suggestions for changes, but have done nothing for almost a year.

This game and this "Community Representative" team is utter garbage.
Even your forum activity is dying, almost as dead as the Shinobi.

For Honor was a great concept, but it was Developer incompetence that killed it.

[Gaser.]

The Dev Team doesn't know what they're doing if they still haven't figured it out by now, the Shinobi has been unplayable ever since August 2019.

Patch 2.11 was a complete failure, which is why threads like this are asking to revert the changes.

You people have already received plenty of feedback about the Shinobi and suggestions for changes, but have done nothing for almost a year.

This game and this "Community Representative" team is utter garbage.
Even your forum activity is dying, almost as dead as the Shinobi.

For Honor was a great concept, but it was Developer incompetence that killed it.

I always ask myself by posts like these if you even know what the Patch 2.11 did?

Here are the patchnotes:

Stance Change
Stance Change Standardized to other Reflex Guard Heroes' time of 1100ms (from 800ms)

Rope
Long Range Grab no longer beats Revenge Activation

Sprint Slide
Only has active hit frames for 400ms (from 600ms)
No longer beats Revenge Activation
Victim can now activate Revenge during the hit

Uninterruptible Stance
The following Moves no longer have Uninterruptable Stance:
Backflip
Roll
Double-Dodge Kick
Kick-After-Deflect
Kick-After-Roll
Sprint Slide
Sickle Rain (including on Victim)


Notice something?

Pretty much everything in this patch are properties, if you hero is only good because of super armour (ignores attacks and bashes) and defying revenge rules then maybe the design of the hero is garbage.

If you call 2.11 a failure then I have to question your view on balance and your knowledge what idiotic things the hero could do with it.

2.11 was justified I stand by that statement.

The hero can’t be fixed without a completely kit changing rework because the current kit is flawed and can’t be made viable without turning it broken again.

[xND_y]

I think it's pretty obvious the devs don't play shinobi. They really don't understand how unplayable shinobis are right now.
Here's an awesome idea; how bout all the devs play shinobi for a week straight and then they will see how broken it is.

[Lone_Wolf_X]

Shin is in a pretty good place right now. The only improvement I think he needs is the punish for a parried thrown guard break. That knock down is way too much. Either he needs a faster recovery or lose the knock down.

[Chump94]

Shin is in a pretty good place right now. The only improvement I think he needs is the punish for a parried thrown guard break. That knock down is way too much. Either he needs a faster recovery or lose the knock down.

Shinobi currently has no offence and no mix ups, the only thing he can do well is turtle and in his current state (although this may be fixed in august) you die in a single guardbreak whether you are being ganked or even ganking. His heavies are also busted where if you change guard too quickly and throw a heavy he throws a ranged which 9 out of 10 times kills you.

All in all he needs a full rework urgently.

[Porch-]

Shinobi currently has no offence and no mix ups, the only thing he can do well is turtle and in his current state (although this may be fixed in august) you die in a single guardbreak whether you are being ganked or even ganking. His heavies are also busted where if you change guard too quickly and throw a heavy he throws a ranged which 9 out of 10 times kills you.

All in all he needs a full rework urgently.

Majority of the people who claim Shinobi is fine or doesn't need a rework has obviously never played Shinobi or received enough experience with the hero. Like I stated before, he is a risk or reward type of hero. One minor/novice mistake, you're either dead or close to being dead. I personally agree with you on the turtling and range attacks. Light spamming will cost you an easy death if the opponent can parry lights. And, the ranged heavies are ineffective unless you're ganking or throwing it after a kick. Sometimes accidental ranged heavies will be thrown and the hero will be punished MAJORLY for it. Shinobi has too little of a health pool. Shinobi's kicks and dashes are usless and most of time you get guard broke out of it. The kicks are easily dodged. Shinobi is ranked "tier C" on the dominion tier list. It's been very close to a year since Shinobi took the big plunge into the trashcan and Ubisoft has received many feedback on the hero - suggestions/opinions.

There's not much you can do on reverting Shinobi from the old patch without it being "OP." In fact, a rework is pretty much what's left on the table.

[Lone_Wolf_X]

Going to have to agree to disagree. I play exclusively with a friend and I watch him tear through most opponents with shin. He and I both agree the only fix needed is the punish for a countered thrown guard block.

[Vendelkin]

I love how people continue to levy anecdotes instead of actually thinking.

Shinobi is in fact by a large margin the weakest hero in the whole cast right now. That is objectively and numerically true.

Some of shinobis nerfs also were mildly unjustified regarding his super armor because other heroes still exploit their super armor in the same way.

Some people dont like his ranged skills cause they dont belong. Other people find the change up to ranged being more than feat-based refreshing. But this particular aspect of his kit will always be a game battle system judgement opinion, and is irrelevant to shinobis current (lack of) viability. (Thus it will always be a conflict issue)

But at the end of the day reverting those changes is still not acceptable because they will only engender anger. Shinobi is very very much in need of a full rework. And the audacity of people saying: well x is good with him so he must perform well generally is astounding, for two reasons.

First the game plays different in 1v1 than in 4v4 modes. Shinobi is at his best when he can manipulate 4v4 modes but even then isnt even average. And second: the games design and balance regardless og mode will always put the heaviest balancing focus on 1 to 1 matchups. And in this department shinobi is extremely weak.