Raider buff | Forums

[MrBdur]

Stun won't come back unfortunately the devs seem fine with the mechanic but only when you can apply it in a defensive manner. Personally I hate how it's being handled but I can't entirely blame them. When you have clowns like a certain person in this thread who would cry anytime something that makes offense workable. Unfortunately they had to gut the move because of people like that.


But to be honest it's not like Raider had decent chained offense even with the tap having stun. It just allowed him to have chained offense. Even though I disagree with how they nerfed the tap it was a bit unhealthy to have tap as THE lynch pin to his kit. It's rarely a good thing to force that much importance onto a singular thing. Raider is "okay" at the moment and i'd rather see other worse performing heros be addressed first. But he should get another round of buffs in the near future imo.

But instead of trying to make tap better again we should look to giving him more offense elsewhere. Like being able to chain into his chained zone even after a finisher attack. And tap being the first hit in a chain instead of the second.

Honestly I feel like Raider is still strong but that could just be due to latency/lag issues. Top tier internet and wired in means I'm at a disadvantage to every wifi player out there due to **** latency. Cant wait for August.

[Knight_Raime]

Honestly I feel like Raider is still strong but that could just be due to latency/lag issues. Top tier internet and wired in means I'm at a disadvantage to every wifi player out there due to **** latency. Cant wait for August.

He still is pretty decent when it comes to most jobs in dominion. It's really just single picks he struggles at now. Which depending if you were good at reactions or not was mostly the case even when his stun could be stacked on you multiple times. I'm not even sure my suggestions would make him that much more viable where he currently lacks. but it would make him more interesting to play at least from my perspective. Especially now that I feel like soft feint to GB is less useful due to chain attacks all having 100ms of vulnerability now.

[Gaser.]

So a followup high damage heavy with softfeint into gb and light potential coupled with instant HA and no GB vulnerability doesn't allow you to 'apply pressure'. Oh wait I forgot the hard feint into light or dodge ST as well. My bad. Your right, how can you possibly continue aggression with such pathetic options?

Throwing a normal heavy won’t do anything, no one in there right mind tries to parry that but instead they react to the options that follow and by that shutting raiders attack down.

I don’t say it’s bad, but it isn’t good either.

It’s decent:

[Gaser.]

'Finally Good' - honestly what is happening to this game.

Raider is not 'trash'. The stunning tap was an infinitely spammable attack with massive damage of any mixup you could pull (and as a chain starter it would feed bask into itself even if done mid combo).

But why not, raider is so bad you cannot possibly get anywhere near a 50% win-rate with him, because I lose like half my games!

Damage and drain was nerfed shortly after the rework came out.

What made stunning tap to good back then was that raiders animation for it was broken, they fixed that now.

Thing is most people just said that the stun was the bad thing instead of the animation for it being broken.

[Qoissant]

I think the fact that raider also did a million damage contributed to his BS, not only the animation.

[Bye_For_Honor]

Stun won't come back unfortunately the devs seem fine with the mechanic but only when you can apply it in a defensive manner. Personally I hate how it's being handled but I can't entirely blame them. When you have clowns like a certain person in this thread who would cry anytime something that makes offense workable. Unfortunately they had to gut the move because of people like that.


But to be honest it's not like Raider had decent chained offense even with the tap having stun. It just allowed him to have chained offense. Even though I disagree with how they nerfed the tap it was a bit unhealthy to have tap as THE lynch pin to his kit. It's rarely a good thing to force that much importance onto a singular thing. Raider is "okay" at the moment and i'd rather see other worse performing heros be addressed first. But he should get another round of buffs in the near future imo.

But instead of trying to make tap better again we should look to giving him more offense elsewhere. Like being able to chain into his chained zone even after a finisher attack. And tap being the first hit in a chain instead of the second.

agreed that there is other heroes who need's urgent fix's like shinobi orochi etc , raider isn't the worst pick rn , he is somewhat useful in 4's with decent damage

hopefully he gets another " rounds" of buffs in the next 10 years .... :/

sad Ég ríf ykkur í bita noises

[Sweaty_Sock]

When you have clowns like a certain person in this thread who would cry anytime something that makes offense workable. Unfortunately they had to gut the move because of people like that.

Your better than petty cheapshots Raime, far better than that. Leave angst over certain issues in those threads, not all over the forums. There is a big difference between making offence viable, and making defence obsolete.

Damage and drain was nerfed shortly after the rework came out.

What made stunning tap to good back then was that raiders animation for it was broken, they fixed that now.

Thing is most people just said that the stun was the bad thing instead of the animation for it being broken.

On rework he had the problems of dodge GB, stun on stunning tap, and the stamina drain. The repeat bash was even asked to be looked at by some people who have epilepsy, the game hadn't been a problem but they had to stop playing with the risk involved in repeat 3 ST chained together.

With raider we need to see what damage he ends up having relative to everyone else, because he has very nasty HA mid chain that also has options. You see the advantage of his cc and damage far more in 4's, which is the mode they are balancing towards these days.

I never said he was OP anymore, hes decent. Not Top tier, not Bottom tier. If his damage on heavies is dropped into a similar level as others after the August patch then hes lost something there and you could look at options to balance that out again, but stunning tap having stun isn't the answer (with less damage involved you could look at letting him just standard heavy from a GB for example and restart chains that way)

[MCBooma16]

All of it is subjective. I did an experiment with Raider throughout the course of a week. People understand that Raider can implement the 44dmg chained zone finisher anywhere within the chain, but not everyone does so exactly.

Lots of people tend to throw out the zone finisher with the same mixup, i.e after a Storming Tap or something. It's really important to vary when to throw the zone.

With the experiment, I threw the zone out from 1 or 2 mixups; Either after a neutral heavy or after a storming tap. The 50/50 is still there kind of, but results were generally poorer.

Then I tried every zone mixup possible; zone after a light, after two lights, LL-Storming tap-zone, LH-zone, H-zone, HH-zone, H-Storming tap-zone, HL-zone etc.

Sometimes I DIDN'T use the zone and opted for finishing lights or heavies. Generally results were a lot more Legendary and opponents decided to dodge my mixups.

The point here is to have more than one or two options. If peope think you're going to do something else, then they'll have to make a split secind decision. I see a lot of Raiders under-utilize the fact that the zone can come from anywhere in the chain. As far as stun goes, it was fun while it lasted. I'll leave it at that.

If Raider needs anything more, I can't really decide yet.

[Knight_Raime]

Your better than petty cheapshots Raime, far better than that. Leave angst over certain issues in those threads, not all over the forums. There is a big difference between making offence viable, and making defence obsolete.

It's not over certain issues. It's me being fed up with you making blatantly false statements or you making up whatever you want to suit your narrative when someone wants to adjust a hero in a way you're not fond of. If people are allowed to call me out on my BS whenever i'm wrong or very clearly pushing my own agenda then you're subject to it too. Deal with it.

[Knight_Raime]

All of it is subjective. I did an experiment with Raider throughout the course of a week. People understand that Raider can implement the 44dmg chained zone finisher anywhere within the chain, but not everyone does so exactly.

Lots of people tend to throw out the zone finisher with the same mixup, i.e after a Storming Tap or something. It's really important to vary when to throw the zone.

With the experiment, I threw the zone out from 1 or 2 mixups; Either after a neutral heavy or after a storming tap. The 50/50 is still there kind of, but results were generally poorer.

Then I tried every zone mixup possible; zone after a light, after two lights, LL-Storming tap-zone, LH-zone, H-zone, HH-zone, H-Storming tap-zone, HL-zone etc.

Sometimes I DIDN'T use the zone and opted for finishing lights or heavies. Generally results were a lot more Legendary and opponents decided to dodge my mixups.

The point here is to have more than one or two options. If peope think you're going to do something else, then they'll have to make a split secind decision. I see a lot of Raiders under-utilize the fact that the zone can come from anywhere in the chain. As far as stun goes, it was fun while it lasted. I'll leave it at that.

If Raider needs anything more, I can't really decide yet.

This is fair, People do tend to fall into linking the zone finisher only after a storm tap. However the zone is still limited in it's application even if you do substitute it through out a chain. This is because the moment someone sees orange they can just attempt to stuff it with some sort of 500ms attack from neutral. Raider is capable of making the read and buffer feinting to parry but he needs to make that read in addition to making the read on which direction the attack is coming from. Even if he didn't have that problem using his zone in a chain is very stamina intensive and thus he can't really do it as multiple mix ups without stopping after one or two tries. Finally it's putting all the pressure on his zone which we really don't want to do with kits.

His other soft feint options are basically meaningless in his combo outside of zone because Nothing stops me from just blocking top and reacting to other directions. I don't need to worry about dodging or parrying between a regular chain attack and his storm tap. So soft feint to GB is pretty useless in that regard. And if i'm already blocking top his tap has no where to go. This is why I suggested having his tap be a chain starter instead of mid chain light. This lets him continue to chain instead of being forced into weak finisher options that lead back to neutral. We could take that even a step further and make tap enhanced. That way a person who simply blocks doesn't shut him out of his chain.

Even if we just made those two changes right there his chain offense would flow a lot better and it wouldn't be such a start and stop rigid offense for the hero.