Member
Right, just to give some context, been playing FH since launch, pretty much every day, rep 426 overall.
I've witnessed and went through all the new heroes releases and hero re-balancing and reworks...
one thing I noticed is that UBI seldom gets the rework right. Most of time time it goes extreme either way (buff or nerf)
examples:
* Cent launch 3 years ago. OP hero, community complains, gets nefed to the ground, community complains, gets rework and buffs, becomes OP again. He is back to unplayable category. Yes he needed a rework but think he got more than he needed
* Conq: average turtle (not his fault, that's what his kit is), got slight buff, but for no apparent reason got nerfed and now is back to average
* Raider: same cycle
HIto and Jorm: strong at launch, nerfed now, community complaining, probably gets nerf in the future
Warlord, same situation as cent.
and so on...
Of course there are exceptions, i. e. reworks that ended up with balances heroes, like BP, warden but the vast majority resulted in either OP too strong or nerfed too weak...
Senior Member
Hito and Jorm, fundamentally broken and should have never been put into the game as they were in the first place. The identity of a stamina bully is impossible to balance and that should have been painfully clear with cent but they had to try again instead of doing something else and just reworking cent instead. Hito had heby on red which is disgusting and needed to go. hito especially, but they are both just unhealthy broken characters.
If you are referring the the removal of raiders stun as some sort of nerf comparable to the treatment hito and warlord got got... I am not sure how to respond to that.
BP is still arguably overtuned in quite a few ways so I would not consider him an exception to this other than that he was very minimally touched and was left as a monster.
I think cent is VERY easy to handle even with this new rework but he is certainly much harder to predict now, making it easier to get punishes. I do believe they should have removed is light punish on GB into wallsplat, but on the other hand his charged heavy has less tracking then just staring at someone.
He is still a full tier or two behind warden, vortiger, and lawman
Senior Member
Hito was kinda the best designed dlc hero next to shaman after his first nerf that made his hyper armour start at 600ms.Originally Posted by CanadianSoupMan Go to original post
That’s why so many people where pissed about the Hito nerfs, because the character didn’t need any and was in a great spot where he did not need a buff or nerf.
Jorms feats are way to strong and his moveset is a dumpster fire.
Still the idea of a stamina bully isn’t something bad and neither it is new, Cent was kinda and now still is a stamina bully.
The only real problem about prior currently is a general issue with crushing counters, because of you backwalk your effectively rob your enemy of the ability to parry most of the time all while you can still crushing counter.
Senior Member
Wouldn’t call new Cent OP, Even more because he is just came out and people got to get used to the new timings and mixups.Originally Posted by The_Sentinel_ Go to original post
My opinion is that the Cent rework was pretty great and even after people get used to him we will stay in a good spot.
Senior Member
I kind of have to disagree fundamentally. There have been some missteps with how they choose to balance things for sure. But I wouldn't blanket that as them being bad at reworks/adjustments. Let me give some good examples.
PK and warlord's adjustments were the proper way to handle both heros. They both are in a great spot right now. Not to say neither has some issues left in their kit. But they're solid heros now.
Berzerker's rework was probably the best work they've ever done until Cent's rework. One could easily argue Zerk's kit was fundamentally solid already and so they got off easy there. But then that's where Centurion comes in. From a design standpoint Centurion (and shinobi) were both designed back when the developers were taking minor approaches to dealing with the defensive problem. You cannot create heros to solve a fundamental problem of the game. They can be test beds for certain mechanics sure. But they themselves can't be the solution. The fact that the developers managed to keep Centurion's identity with his rework while making him actually function in current game in a healthy way is nothing short of amazing in my book.
For some controversial picks on good examples I will take Warden and Valk. Both reworks are a good example of flow. All of Warden's kit is useful. They took his core gimmick of bash and built around it to extend it. People don't like how bash focused he is and that's fine. But that's not really important when talking about quality of reworks here. Then we have Valk. A large majority of her issues as I understand them are simply number adjustments. From stamina to attack speed. She might need a few bigger changes namely to finishers. But still. It's been my opinion that season 8 onward the devs have figured out how to make kit flow actually work. And I feel hero designs have mostly improved a great deal from that point onward.
I can't really fault them for Goki's state post rework. It's his core design that doesn't really fit with the game direction. In a similar vein we can say neither does Jorm. But i personally disagree here. I don't think a stamina bully/stalling her is inherently bad for the game. It's just a lot harder to balance. They tried with Goki via armor and we've learned that armor really can't do that in a healthy fashion. So now they're trying with Jorm and stamina. This could work if stamina management on a base level is never a base game issue. But even then it would be difficult to balance.
I don't really count raider here because I don't see his as a rework. I think the devs genuinely had no idea how to approach him. So they made him a high damage trader. It feels more similar to a pk/warlord treatment but done poorly.
Hitokiri on the other hand. I don't think was designed terribly. I think we as a community misunderstood her initially. And because of our reactions the developers have done the odd thing that they've never done before which is attempt to change a hero's identity. We were sold on the idea that she's meant to be a trading character that is relentless and overwhelming. The latter half still exists and could absolutely be improved upon. But it's the former they're essentially removing and they're doing a poor job at handling that.
So to close, I disagree. I don't think most "reworks" were done poorly. I do think that the devs consistency on how they handle things post release via balancing is the bigger issue. Largely because we're not really privy to the kind of visions they have for the game as a whole let alone for specific heros. We all understand why Stunning tap was adjusted. What we don't know is why they specifically chose to handle it the way they did. And how the devs truly vision the character.
